I had a friend who always texted me whenever he wanted something

"Rishav, can I borrow your laptop?"

"Rishav, can I borrow a book?"

Now when he messages me, I either pretend I'm offline or didn't see the text Sounds harsh, but that's because he's maxed out He's made too many withdrawals and not enough deposits Most campus recruiters make too many withdrawals in their cold emails to college administrators "Can I have 20 minutes to speak in front of your class?" "Did you get my email?" "Can we chat today or tomorrow?"




When you've maxed out, people avoid you Instead of making withdrawals, make deposits One way to make deposits is to loop in your colleague/the college's alumni into your emails and talk about the things the college administrator may care about (i.e. the things they teach in their class, the subject at hand, the industry) When trying to build relationships at a new school, don't neglect the connections your own employees may have and for your own sake, don't max out These deposits build credit With digital recruiting taking precedence, I get that it's easy to overlook, but when all your competitors are on the same platforms, how are you going to stand out? Where can you go where you're the only employer? So, why are you still here scrolling and reading? Go take a listen to Michael drop some value bombs on making an impact as a campus recruiter!

Companies that will do virtual recruiting for the 2020-21 academic year, by company size

Source: NACE Report: COVID-19 Quick Poll Series, National Association of Colleges and Employers

Rishav Khanal 0:02

Boom. Alrighty, so listeners, everybody that is watching this on their computer screens, or however you do it. Welcome back to your recruitingU, Michael, super excited to have you on board. And as our listeners know, I'm not sure if you're aware, but you love to start off these things. They're really, really nice however you want to categorize it. Fun fact. So I'm not sure if you're aware, but the shortest sentence in the English vocabulary is go. But it also has the longest implicated meaning. Hmm, that was the reaction I was hoping for.

Michael Nuttle 0:45

I watched a couple of the other episodes and you had the one about I think it was with, with cam when it was like the, you don't use the letter A when you're spelling out words or numbers until like 1000. I was like, why would I have ever thought of that? Like my mind was blown. But then I was like, why would I ever ever think about

Rishav Khanal 1:08

You got the point of those? Yeah, I started absolutely right. Right. Yeah. But yeah, turning the mic over to you. To give us a little background introduction. And something I feel like your colleagues or anybody listening to this one Exactly. Pick up on as far as something about you.

Michael Nuttle 1:23

Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so I'm Michael? No, I'm a campus recruiter, which is why I'm on this podcast, right. So I'm a little bit more unique of a background. I heard some somebody else on one of your episodes make the content is like, does anybody actually ever plan on going into campus recruiting when, you know, like when they come out of college, and like, I've definitely fit into that category of not planning on that. I got an accounting degree from Miami, and I graduated in 2014. Miami University, the real one in Oxford, Ohio, not the fake one down in Florida. And I did the whole CPA track, and so did the did the CPA exam. The summer after I graduated summer 2014. It was probably the most boring, but most rewarding summer that I've ever had a, and then started my career with, with bkd. So it's a public accounting firm. And I started in the tax department there in Cincinnati, and did that for a couple of years, then just really kind of figured out that it's not what I wanted to do long term, but like a lot of people, I was like, oh, what do I like, what do I want to do? So I actually tried to dabble in a little NFL scouting for a little bit.

The salary for an NFL scout ranges from $45,000 to $95,000


That didn't go well. And so in that time, I ended up transitioning over to the campus recruiter role with bkd. And that's where I've been for about three years now, actually. And so just, you know, not really what I plan on doing with my career, but it's one of those things that it's like, you know, you got into it. And I said, I tried out for six months and six months turned into three years. And now I'm on a podcast talking about recruiting, because this is this is where my life has taken me and it's great. So as far as you know, like, things that you know, something interesting about me, I don't know if it's interesting, but I'm a pretty open book. So like, I know, you've like prepped me for this, like, share, like a interesting fact that people would know, I'm like, man, I tell everybody everything, which may not be a good thing. Um, there's like really unique. Like, when I'm talking to somebody, or like any situation, the way I'm processing it in my head is like, if I were to write this into, like a news article, how, how would that be read? Like, how would that look as a news article? I know, I don't like writing. I don't do a lot of writing. But just the way that I process things and the way that I process informations are kind of like conversations I have with people or situations I find myself and I'm just like, man, if this was a news article, like, what would that look like? Um, and that's not really something I share with a lot of people probably for obvious reasons.

Rishav Khanal 4:01

Well, I thought you had me with the NFL scout. And yeah, and throw this curveballs.

Michael Nuttle 4:08

Man, I I could we could do a whole separate podcast on that. There's

Rishav Khanal 4:14

a zig zags. Well, let me ask you then, just real quick, cuz I gotta know. And it's, I'm getting this itch. Um, what is the classic NFL scout? Look? I mean, how are you? What's your kaki game like what you know, right? polos where you're rocking for those few months?

Michael Nuttle 4:31

Well, it was funny. So I went down to I did a couple. I went down to the senior bowl, sit down in Mobile Alabama a couple of times and so I did like an online like scouting school and everything. That was great. It was super educational was awesome process and it got me down there and I got to network and stuff and they actually told me they're like, you know, don't dress up for this. They're like, try to look as normal or casual as possible. And so like, I'm, you know, I like I was like, I guess I'll just wear t shirts the entire time. I didn't have to, like run out and like change my whole wardrobe or anything. But if you want to paint like a stereotypical picture, like you're definitely gonna see like, Yeah, probably like athletic looking like Quarter Zip. With either jeans or khaki pants, maybe a hat. You're probably walking around with either a notebook or a clipboard or something like that. So

Rishav Khanal 5:22

your campus recruiting look as well. Where you are scouting, right?

Michael Nuttle 5:27

Somebody made that connection to me, one of one of the managing partners for the office, one of the offices that I recruit for he made that comment. He's like, you know, you're just doing that, but for accountants, right. I was like, I hadn't put that together, but

Rishav Khanal 5:40

I like it. It's good. There you go. And then give me 30 seconds. I'm gonna do a 40 yard dash. Yeah, it's larger to my outlet, so it doesn't die. All right, you

Michael Nuttle 6:01

That was good. Was that was, that was the best charger to charge her to computer time I've seen so straight straight to the pros.

Rishav Khanal 6:11

There you go. I didn't say you said it. But let's let's dive right into it. Because I know people are excited. So Michael, I mean, you know, I've come in this hypothetical scenario, I've come to your workshop where you help other campus recruiters like me really hone in on their craft. And for me, right now I'm in a weird predicament where I know I need to have a lot of partnerships with my university partners. But I just don't really have that network. So I hear recruiters go and say, Hey, talk to faculty, Career Services, talk to yada yada. But it's zero in my virtual Rolodex, right? I got nobody and I kind of feel alone. So how do I start to even initiate those relationships and then get to a point where I can strengthen them?

Michael Nuttle 6:58

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think you, you, you started off, right, in the sense of like, where you want to start and the idea of connecting with faculty connecting with, with, with, you know, people in career services, because I know, so like, when I look back into when I first started my career in public, or Well, in campus recruiting, I should say, um, you know, my thought is like, how do I just start meeting students, and the thing that you quickly find out and campus recruiting is that students come in, they go, and they come in, they go, and they come and go. So if you're relying strictly on those relationships with students, you're going to have to be re creating a lot of relationships over and over. And so that's where, like you said, meeting the faculty meeting, in the Career Service folks, is a key really to sustaining your campus recruiting process, I would say, um, but so yeah, so you're starting off, you're brand new, you know, where do you Where do you go? I think the biggest thing that you that you need to do is take a look at your network, your own personal network, doesn't even have to be through the scope of campus recruiting, look at who you know, and then start to figure out how can I tie this into a connection into into like, a campus or something like that, um, you know, it's, it's, it's one of those things where you never know who knows somebody. And so much of campus recruiting so much of getting connected with folks is being able to just just get connected to them and then start talking is one of the things you'll find especially with Career Services, like people who work in career services, there's their jobs are to are to get their students jobs, that's why they're in career services, right? And so they're wanting to connect with people that can get their students to jobs. But how do you go about meeting them? Again, that's where you're looking at your current network is like can I do I know anybody who maybe has a strong connection to a strong connection to a university have a strong connection to somebody in the Career Services things like that and it starts to utilize those relationships that you have there

Rishav Khanal 10:10

Okay, you know, start from my own personal network? Yeah.

Michael Nuttle 10:18

Yes. Um, so pretty much. So like what I was saying. So the idea is, I think with anything, check your network, you never know who is connected to where? Right? Um, so look, look and see, you know, is there anybody key that maybe already has relationships with, with somebody, you know, a key individual on a university, whether that's faculty, whether that's in the Career Services or things like that, you know, maybe, maybe they're just a prominent alumni, or they give a lot of money or something like that, you know, you just don't know. So take a look at your network and see, and then start to figure out Yeah, like, Where, where can I add in that, that value, by layering in some, some new people and everything. So I'm utilizing someone already connection, or somebody already in your network, I think is the strongest way to go. But then if you don't, um, don't be afraid to just reach out to folks on campus, one of the things you'll find out very, very quickly, is that people that work in career services, a lot of faculty and things like that, they want their students to get hired, right, that's, that's their goal. That's what gets them out of bed. And so if you're a campus recruiter, saying, Hey, I'm hiring for jobs, I want to hire your students, people are going to be pretty, pretty open to meeting with you, right? Um, so. So I think then it's, again, it's understanding those key relationships. So understanding that you need to have those relationships with folks in the Career Services, you need to have those relationships with the faculty and things like that, um, and then start to just reach out, how do you find these people, if you don't have the connections, I mean, go on every website for a school, you know, check out the career section there. A lot of a lot of universities are using handshake, things like that, I mean, you can find the contact information anywhere, and then don't be afraid to just reach out to this person and introduce yourself. But I think the big thing then is what do you do once you have that connection, and that's where then becomes actually strengthening that relationship. And right now we find ourselves obviously, in a very unique time, we're all on zoom, we're all on, you know, Skype, and Google Hangouts and everything, and we're all connected via LinkedIn and everything, but, but at some point, you actually have to be a person. And like, that person has to be a person to you. And so you need to still take that time. And, and, and invest 30 minutes in a phone call, invest 30 minutes in a in a video call or something like that, so that they get to know you, because at the end of the day, what you're doing is you're building your, your own personal brand with that person who then feels comfortable with who you are, what you're selling, what you're recruiting for, and then be able to then direct your direct their students to that. So it's I, you know, as we as we all get longer into this stay at home thing and the quarantine, whether you're getting lifted or not, that's again, another discussion, but it's still so important to be more than just somebody who posts a lot on LinkedIn, you know, you got to still be the recruiter you still got, you still have to take the time to connect with people and build the relationships, the actual relationships, and not just emails back and forth and things like that. I had a, one of the managing partners I worked for, made a comment that he's like, you know, especially public accounting, he's like, this is such a people business is like, if we get down to just numbers, he said, we'll lose every time we charge too much money like blah, blah, he said, but he makes the point that he's like, you can be anybody at anything, you or whatever he's like, so you can create whatever picture you like, but at the end of the day, they're only going to buy and buy that. And if that's not what you're actually selling,

eventually, like that's gonna catch up to you, right? Like, that's not gonna, that's not going to be good enough, you need to still make that person to person connection, socially distance or not, you know, so, uh, so yeah, I think that, that starting, getting those connections there are are huge. And kind of going from there. And then I think it's then starting to look at how you can utilize those relationships, right, once that connection is made, you know, where, where can you start to fit in as far as getting connected to key students or student organizations and things like that. So, you know, I think about one of my own personal connections at a university that I recruit at. She's a career coach. And so, you know, we got connected early on, and I got connected to her through another connection. at another university, she used to work for this Director of Career Services at university, this other university and everything. Through that relationship, I then ended up getting connected with, you know, the president of this accounting organization. You know, and then next thing I know, like, I'm able to start presenting to their opening meeting for the semester, like the first, first, the recruiter that a lot of these students ever meet, is me, and they're hearing about my company and things like that. And so it's, you know, it's starting with, like, like, we didn't say it started with the faculty, it's starting with those Career Service folks, then utilizing that to then get you tied into some of those key students and things like that.

Rishav Khanal 15:40

So I guess, let me double down on it. Because I think where, like, the why behind my question came from why, specifically around faculty, and I have heard horror stories, right from other recruiters saying, Hey, I have sent out, you know, some emails here and there to Career Services, folks, the faculty, they never get back to me. Yeah. And we usually come to the reason that it's one of two things. One, the email is the same cookie cutter template, right? And so it's like, Okay, well, what do I do there? or second? It's hard, because they just come back kind of just bouncing around to different areas, like, hey, talk to so and so or talk to so yeah. So I guess addressing the first point of the M personalized messages. I mean, what what messages in your world have really worked for you or other recruiters? Would you say that gotten Career Services folks back?

Michael Nuttle 16:42

Yeah, um, I would say, well, so specifically with faculty, so when we're talking about the professor's I think you really need to rely on alumni. So like, I agree with you that I don't think any email that I send on my own is going to work. Hey, I'm Michael, I'm not an alumni of the school. I recruit at 10 different schools, right? I've not an alumni of 10 different schools are like don't have that card, right. So if I'm just coming at him, Mike, well, I'm a recruiter, when I hear kids are like everybody does great. I'm adding that personal element to it. Right? Hey, I'm Michael Nuttle. I work with Rashad, he is an alumni of the school he talked about your taxation class, and he loved it. loved it, I would love to talk to you more about your taxation class, you know, it's something that I recruit for, and like I have a decent understanding of and I would love to hear what what the students are interested in, you know, don't even make it about hiring students at first, you know, how can we? How can we just connect, right? How can we have more of a relationship than just, hey, help me do my job? Right? You know, because because at the end of the day, too, as a recruiter you have in, like, you have resources, and you have information that they want to know, to, hey, how do I how do I make my students better for the jobs that you're hiring for? How do I prepare my students better and things like that. And so I really think having again, that that connecting piece of maybe like an alumni or somebody that they know, really is going to make a huge difference. I think even more so with the faculty in the Career Services, I I personally, just think the Career Service folks, if they're just if you're if you're hiring folks, they definitely want to at least meet you and everything. But the more that the more personal element that you can put with it. I think I think the better better chance that you have at success. Because I spent a lot of time the my first first six months as a recruiter just sent an email to schools, to people that I didn't know. And yeah, I got the runaround, right. And so I think then, like once you can meet like one or two, then expanding like, you know, don't try to just meet all 20 faculty, right? One or two, get connected with them, get to know them, well, they'll start to introduce you. Things like that, I think is probably the best, best way to go. So inch wide, about a mile deep. I like it.

Rishav Khanal 19:10

So let's go on a great line. This is a brief surface this to make sure I didn't miss anything. So I'm kind of starting from zero. Even though I think a lot of people say that what you're saying is, hey, audit your own professional audit. There you go. Yeah, learning accounting things.Probably got it.

Michael Nuttle 19:27

Yeah. Are you sure you don't want to do accounting? So you basically got it all figured out?

Rishav Khanal 19:31

Yeah, that's the only thing I need to know. Right? It's really revisit and look at my professional network to see hey, even if it's not somebody that is a direct faculty member or a directory services member, maybe they're an influential alumni who can that be used as a bridge are a conduit to these folks. Hmm. And once I get there, once I start sending out those messages, taking a step back and saying, Okay, if I'm writing emails that has just helped me do that. My job better than the successes just isn't going to be there. Right. But instead tying in the value of their class or what they do, and the resources that you can provide to them to then say, okay, maybe there's something here, especially for schools where I don't know anybody, any ground to stand on. And then the last thing is, as opposed to spray and pray across all my relationships, finding the ones that I can really lean on the one to two influential folks that that can then point me towards other tangential people, such as like a career coach, or influential students. So all three of those, so I got a pretty good idea of what to do. Because that seems like it's not, it's easier said than done.

Michael Nuttle 20:43

It always is, isn't it, though? Yeah.

Rishav Khanal 20:47

So anything I might have missed? Or anything that you'd like to add on to instead of that, because it seems like I have a lot of work to do?

Michael Nuttle 20:54

No, I mean, I think it's one of those things, I think, this job, being a recruiter, because you deal with people so much. It's, it's really unique. It's, it's so much more than just filling positions, right? I, I get asked to do a fill for internships, I was like, I can fill for internship spots, but like, are they going to be good candidates are they gonna be backends. And that's where it's like, you know, again, dealing with the people, it's such a, it's such a people thing. And so, you know, having the right attitude about that remembering that you're working with people I think is the is the biggest thing, because, you know, we all have feelings, and we all have, you know, hopes and desires and things like that. And so remembering that about the people, not only that you're trying to connect with the people that you're recruiting and everything, but just just keeping that in the forefront of your mind, I think is, is huge. But then also just, you know, like I said, you know, taking the time to really get to know, get to know people, it does take time, right? You're not going to create this network in a week. You know, I've been doing this recruiting for three years now. And I still feel like my network could expand well beyond where it is now. But like, at all the while, I'm still like, needing to spend the time fostering little relationships I've built to continue to build those, you know, don't don't meet somebody just to meet somebody else, and then forgot about that first person, right? You know, remember those folks whose you don't know who that person then is it going to be able to then connect you with so that one person can connect connect you to five or six more people. But if you just go from one to the next to the next, you know, where's the value in that and everything. And again, it gets back to the human element. I mean, it's, if if I come here, and I'm trying to not make it seem like I'm just getting to know you so that I can do my job well, and as soon as you connect me with somebody else, and I'm like, I think see, yeah, I'm, I'm sending the exact message, what I'm not trying to do, you know, and so don't forget the human element in it. I think so many, I've listened to a few of the other folks that have been on your podcast, you got it. You've had some really good people on this podcast. Honestly,

Rishav Khanal 23:09

I'm adding one more to the list. One this guy

Michael Nuttle 23:11

appreciate that. I appreciate that. But no, I mean, just, you know, you hear you hear recruit like these recruiters talk and everything. And it's like, you know, there's so much more than being a recruiter, it's so much more about helping find the right people for the right jobs, whether that's with your company or not, you know, like, like I said, like, I would love to hire the best people every single time. But sometimes the best people out there are not the best people for my company and everything. And so it's it's, it's huge. To me, that's where you got to completely like, look at it more than just a numbers thing. Right? Which, as a former accountant,

little tough to do sometimes.

Rishav Khanal 23:52

Yeah, seriously, no, I think this has been super valuable to realize that, yes, this is an exercise in patience, but at the same time to do it in a way where, again, you're not using people as a stepping stone. Because if you're gonna get frustrated and say, Hey, people are using me as a stepping stone, right? It's kind of like, well, am I using people as a stepping stone? That's a little bit of a gut check moment. But seriously, Michael, thanks for coming on. Learning not only how you recruit and recruit so well, but I can see that coming from your scout days. Seriously, this was a blast. I and I'm excited for our listeners to either follow up with you or just kind of put it out to the world to get a little daily reminder of how to make this into a people business rather than just spraying practice.

Michael Nuttle 24:39

Absolutely, yeah. No, I mean, my job is to connect with people. So if anybody wants to find me on LinkedIn, I'm around. It's about to be the summertime. So campus recruiting is definitely at its lowest point right now. So I'm always looking to talk with folks whether it's about campus recruitment or about positions or things like that. So happy to connect with anybody.

Connect with Michael HERE

Rishav Khanal 25:00

Sweet. All right, thanks again. Excellent. Thank you.

9 Seasons and 208 EPISODES later..... 😵

Let me ask you something - have you ever watched a series you loved for YEARS only to HATE it after watching the finale?

If so - welcome to my feelings about How I Met Your Mother

FYI -- this feeling is described as the "peak-end-rule"

Just a fancy psychology term that means people basically judge an experience by its peak and its end rather than every moment

So - what does this have to do with your virtual internships?!? Summarizing a few key points from my conversations with Kristen Garbarino (Intern Program Manager at SAS), here's what you need to think about:

1️⃣ When you make people feel good, they are likely to love you back (Duh, right...?)

BUT a perfect example of something to think about is your executive lunch & learn series. Remind those leaders to keep it short AND keep it lighthearted

Yes, they're college students, but they're not aliens... They're humans and humans like to laugh

2️⃣ Good ol' "thank you" goes a long way

For many managers, this is their FIRST time managing an intern REMOTELY Do they know how to do it?

Do they know how to properly evaluate them and send them off properly?!

It's up to you to help them create a process to thank them and send them off the right way

The 5 Ways Are Discussed In The Video Tactical and Timely - ENJOY ✔️

Rishav Khanal 0:00

Everybody, welcome back to recruiting you where we really get strategic about campus recruiting. Super excited to have our guests on as we unveil the shiny new studio, Kristen. Welcome. Now before we get into the introductions, because I'm sure our listeners are kind of dying to hear a little bit about what you've got prepared and everything like that, we like to start off the podcast with a really irrelevant, dumb Fun fact, if you will. So the only word in the English language that ends in m - t is the word dreamt. A little fun fact. So as our listeners are kind of pondering on that, why don't you go ahead and give us a little bit of background into you? Why campus recruiting, and also share a little bit about something that your friends or colleagues would necessarily know about you.

Kristen Garbarino 0:54

Thanks so much for having me for having me. Rishav I'm excited to be here, hopefully share some insights. Kristen Garbarino currently intern program manager at SAS, our global headquarters is based in Cary, North Carolina, just outside of Raleigh, manage an intern program about 280 interns typically on an annual basis, and have been in kind of the HR college recruiting space for about nine years now. And when I think about my career, and the days that I've gotten super excited to get out of bed every morning is when I get to interact with students and connect them with their passions. meeting our interns on day one started the program and seeing them grow and develop is just so rewarding and phenomenal. So that's why I've been in this kind of industry and career. And a fun fact about me that maybe my colleagues or peers don't know. One time I went bungee jumping in the Swiss Alps. And it was awesome. I'm glad we were 450 feet up in the air on a gondola. cablecar over a lake and you jumped out. And it was absolutely the scariest thing I've ever done.

Highest Bungee Jump in the world: 216 meters: Bloukrans Bridge, Western Cape, South Africa

I don't think anyone could pay me to do it again. But really glad I took that opportunity.

Rishav Khanal 2:18

Dang, now I know that I don't know if you classify yourself as an adrenaline junkie, but I feel

your you're like, probably really amped as you touch ground. That's awesome. Um, so with that being said, let's get into it. Right. I think we're really excited in the scenario that I think a lot of recruiters right now are finding themselves in intern program managers is my boss came to me. Thankfully, we are still continuing on with our internship program. But he said, Rishav, I want you to take this thing virtual. And I'm like, Okay, sure. Kind of panicking on the inside, because I have no idea what to do. So what am I doing? How do I get this thing started to make sure that we're really creating an awesome internship program, but everything's got to be virtual now.

Kristen Garbarino 3:11

Great question.

It's interesting, you ask that that set it up that way, because that's kind of how I was feeling about five weeks ago, in March, when our company did decide, virtual is going to be the best option just due to the unknowns with COVID-19. So by all means, I do not have it all figured out. But the things I want to talk through would be, I think, best case scenario. And then maybe some options be, you know, different scenarios if you don't have those actions. And I'll share a little bit about what we've done with our intern program to when I think about starting out to collect some ideas to be able to present to your leadership team for recommendations, because ultimately, you're going to want to get their buy in on your plan is think about your network. So connecting with, you know, local companies in your geography, other companies in your industry. So it's time to kind of work that network and know that good brainstorming doesn't happen alone. I was really fortunate that we got a weekly call going with about 10 to 12 other organizations in the Raleigh Durham area that included some other tech companies, other industries. And we all just said, Hey, we're going through this together. What ideas are you guys moving forward on what's working for you, and have really kept a close network to share best practices, knowing that we're all going through the same thing and really have the same end goal is that we want to be able to move forward with our internships and make it a best in class experience virtually. So that would kind of be my recommendation for first step is doing that benchmarking.

There's also to just a lot of great research and other resources out there, kind of in the university recruiting space. We've been fortunate to be connected. With some research companies that have been doing surveys with students on a weekly basis getting a pulse from what anxieties do students have, what information do they need? What communications would be helpful for them throughout this time, so really understanding and what what the market surveys is saying. So finally, once you've kind of collected some facts and thoughts on your plan, next step is getting that buy in from your leadership and doing that as quickly as possible, right, so you can move forward with the plan and communicate the plan to students and managers. So developing that close partnership, whether it's with your HR leadership that really has oversight, you know, of the intern program, that's how it is in my company, but also to get invited from, you know, the business leaders that are actually going to have interns in their departments on their teams, and fully understanding with them. Can the project work actually be done virtually and successfully? Do we have all the resources and the right managers in place to enable these students to onboard virtually think about it, if you're in a manager, shoes, managers are at home, maybe they've got numerous kids at home, they're already trying to manage their teams virtually for the first time, do they feel like they can take on this student that they've never even met, and get them up to skill. So we kind of went through a review process to figure that out and determine that majority of our positions, you know, can be done virtually and so, so fortunate. I think not every company is going to be in that situation. And maybe, if that is the case, an alternative solution could be thinking about some educational training opportunities to offer to interns, maybe it's a eight week long project that interns could work on, and you've got a subset of managers that are willing to help with that kind of component of internship. So offering some type of alternative solution so that they still get an experience with your company, and they still get to learn and grow.

Rishav Khanal 7:03

Well, I was just gonna say, the first part, actually was like a pretty big surprise to me that like you gathered everybody together. And you know, we kind of think about competitors, right? In the business landscape. You're so right, everybody's going through the same thing. So be willing to kind of share some some ideas there. I mean, did the conversation flow itself naturally, because I envisioned for a company like us that's a little bit smaller, talking to a company, like yourself, where you're managing 280 interns, the scope of the problems, at least gut feeling tells me it's a lot different. But did you not find that to be the case when you're in the roundtable conversation? Yeah,

Kristen Garbarino 7:44

so we did sit down, I definitely can't take credit for this. My manager is so well connected in the area, she found herself just naturally reaching out to some of her peers and realized, okay, there's some opportunity to actually get on the call and kind of have a set agenda. So the kind of the committee did send out a survey to understand, okay, what points would be helpful to discuss on the call, so that we use our time effectively, we found that we were able, for the most part to share helpful information that was helpful for everyone. I think there's definitely some organizations on the call that were in different positions. For example, for whatever reason for security and it purposes, one company did share that and we're going to be able to deploy laptops. So they were looking at alternative solutions. For that if interns were going to be able to get the internship from there, you know, I would hardware PCs.

Half of the internships in the U.S. were canceled in the spring of 2020

Source: Covid-19 And The Lost College Internship

Rishav Khanal 8:41

Man, that's you talking about pushing a boulder up a mountain, if you can't deploy laptops, and you gotta come up with something creatively, thankfully, we're not in that boat. Um, but it talking about the actual internship experience, right, I and I in, you know, we can talk about productivity. And I think, yes, there are going to be certain inherent challenges that come with that. But I also want to make sure that our interns have an amazing experience and all that special sauce that went into the company and, and rubbing shoulders with the people that you get to meet. I mean, this is a really vital time for a lot of students trying to enter the workforce for the first time. So like, how do you create a culture? Like what are some things that you and your team have kind of discussed to make sure that still remains intact?

Kristen Garbarino 9:26

Yeah, that's super important. And definitely, a lot of brainstorming is going into that. We're still getting that finalized. But a few things that we've got on the plan is getting the managers ready so going to facilitate some manager enablement and training sessions to help them think through what does good look like the first three or four weeks of the internship. That's things like going to ask them to connect daily with their new interns over the webcam, you know, making that connection, making sure the intern has either like a mentor or buddy really assigned to them. their experience. So those managers get busy. Someone else on the team that would be excited to invest time in developing the intern that can help build that connection and kind of launch their learning and their projects, help them with those technical problems. But then beyond that, I think week one is vital still hosts that orientation, we always kind of offer a half day in person orientation. So we really moved all of those guest speakers and content to be virtual. We use Microsoft Teams as our platform. But zoom is another great one out there, we're going to be using ms teams, day one, to invite different guest speakers and talk about what to expect for the duration internship tips on how to work virtually, but introducing them to the company, the culture, and kind of just knowing we're here to make this as awesome as we can. And we're going to make it interactive, the best of our ability. So really offering I think at least two kind of intern wide events per week is what has worked well for us in the past for in person. So taking a look at those in person events, which one can you switch to be virtual? What are some new ones that we haven't done in the past that could be virtual. So when I think about the social component, you know, building that network of peers and community and camaraderie, maybe it's some virtual yoga sessions, it's trivia or Jeopardy night, over ms teams. Maybe we do some team building things, you have a scavenger hunt in your house, and we're competing against each other. And then professional development activities. That's a huge part of our internship experience beyond just your day to day project work, we're able to offer things like doing an analysis on the disc profile. So kind of figuring out how you relate to others that can be done virtually. Also to we've got a session scheduled on things like navigating change, you're joining this company, virtually How do you adapt to this change, partnering with our LinkedIn and social media team on building out your professional brand on your LinkedIn profile, that can be done virtually. So I'm finding that a lot of the content I did have built out and sessions can go virtual, there are some that it won't be able to be done virtually, and just kind of have to be okay with some things are out of our control.

Rishav Khanal 12:25

In that's a fantastic point. I mean, because if I'm just thinking about it, if I can develop, you know, my interns to get their professional competencies skills, and really flex those muscles, they're still getting the value out of that internship experience. And if I can teach my managers and enable them to really facilitate that relationship, and then yeah, like, there are certain challenges that just go away from that. I mean, specifically from a content standpoint, because I'm moving there to like, I'm thinking about ways to really captivate an audience and deliver a lot of these trainings, virtually, what are some advices or tips that you've gotten, and to make sure that everybody stays engaged. So I don't want it to be super boring, and everybody just has their videos off. But I don't want to be telling people to, you know, turn their microphones off. If they're not talking every 15 minutes, I want it to be engaging.

Kristen Garbarino 13:17

Yeah, that's a great point. Because you could easily tap out right, you could turn your webcam off and not participate. so fortunate to have some really engaging guest speakers that we're going to have part of these sessions that are that are employees of the company. And I think limiting each session to 45 minutes over the webcam is the best practice that I've been researching. Often we get excited if you're a guest speaker, right, and you've got a lot of content developed. And you're like, Okay, I'm going for 60 minutes, but been doing some research that really after like 35-40 minutes, you start to lose people over the webcam, and it's so different being at your computer versus an in person session for a reason your mind is focused in a different way. So I think that's definitely one good tip. But then preparing your guest speakers, whatever session they're presenting on, to let them know, we want to make this fun and light. And this is a group of college students. So come up with some creative ways to get them engaged on their webcams, doing q&a and having them participate. I know that zoom has some like breakout chat sessions that you can use. So that would be a cool way to do some group activities, even within a larger session.

Rishav Khanal 14:32

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I think you can like have individual people or like, you know, groups of smaller cohorts go into their own rooms discuss and then come back as well. Um, so I kind of want to make sure I haven't missed anything yet so far, because there's a lot of good stuff. So first, which I didn't even think about is gathering a group of local, you know, companies kind of in my area to discuss best practices, and then talking to my leadership team to really get the buy in of making sure all the leads Just takes on the housekeeping items are set for those interns to be successful. And then there's a smaller subset of that, what it seems like to have managers and really enable those managers to make sure that they're giving those interns or at least you know, what they think is of great experience. And then for the interns, make sure that you are also enabling them by building out content related to professional development skills, giving them and assigning them a buddy that they can go to, that's not their manager, right, so they can have that informal relationship. And then I believe you mentioned, like having, like, virtual sessions, so that you can help them navigate through change kind of pieces and ties into that content as well. And then making sure for the content in order to be engaging, limited to about 45 minutes, because you start to lose people after after that time. And I think we've all you know, been guilty of that, and create some engaging speakers and keep it light hearted. So I've got lots of work to do anything that I might have missed from point A to present point z, maybe where we are,

Kristen Garbarino 16:04

I think the final thing is thinking through intern programs are a pipeline to full time opportunities. So making sure there's still that opportunity for managers to effectively evaluate performance, and make decisions about full time offers for those that are going into their senior year. So making sure managers feel like they can really evaluate them with that virtual relationship. How do you get creative on that? I think one component that we're going to incorporate is making sure final presentations can still happen. And that might be a smaller group that they're presenting to. But that's a huge component of that evaluation pieces that into the summer delivery of of results.

Rishav Khanal 16:44

And I'm also thinking, as you said, that is I have to now think about my interns, and teaching them and enabling them to deliver virtual presentations, because it might be a little bit different than doing it in person. But that is an excellent point is to somehow go back to my managers and give them the space and the opportunity to still evaluate the intern. Because you're right, that's there's a reason why an internship program exists. And the crux of it, I mean, experience and all the side it is the pipeline for future talent makes sense. Like I said, I've got lots of work to do. It seems like lots of recruiters everybody's in the same boat. I think something that you open my eyes towards is exactly that point. Everybody is kind of now because of this, this pandemic situation, more or less in the same setting. So relying on our counterparts, relying on these people to brainstorm and go to advice, something I'm gonna hold myself accountable to do more. But thank you again for coming on. This is a lot of fun. I had lots of takeaways, lots of things to do, but anything else otherwise I think we're good to go.

Kristen Garbarino 17:47

I think you got it all Rishav.

We've got a lot to do over the next month, but I'm excited excited for the challenge and I think you're gonna be great. Awesome.

Connect with Kristen HERE

Rishav Khanal 17:55

Thank you. All right.

Updated: Nov 11

Thinking a tool is going to solve all your campus recruiting needs is like thinking you’ll get JACKED right after you purchase a gym membership…

Hate to break it you, but that’s not happening 😅

With so many companies having to switch their campus recruiting efforts overnight, the question remains…

How and where do I start?

Before you start pulling your hair out

Here’s a digital strategy system check from the pros themselves Todd Good & Kelsey Weissgold

1 Define if your digital recruiting strategy will be 100% digital or a hybrid model (sounds simple, but often goes unanswered)

2 Define how you’ll measure your digital recruiting efforts besides just the total number of hires. Hiring is an exercise in patience so you'll need to start tracking essential inputs such as the number of touchpoints per candidate, the total cost of travel saved or the ability to bring on a representative pipeline

3 Define how you’ll create engaging events; sourcing is only half the battle. How will you create engaging and educational events for candidates besides a 30-minute infomercial known as an “info-session?"

Not sure how, but I somehow suckered Todd & Kelsey to providing a ton of value for $0

Maybe it was the hat?

Rishav Khanal 0:00

Welcome back to recruitingU. And I know things look a little bit different. Not a black shirt and a better hat on. But no worries, folks, I am getting a haircut really, really soon Fingers crossed. But I'm excited to have, frankly, two of my favorite people on and No, I don't think I say this to everybody. I hope not. But either way, Todd Kelsey, excited to have you on. I'm excited for introductions and to really dive into the topic that I think it's going to be relevant for all of us listening to this. But as you all know, before we dive into all that we'd like to start these things off with a really dumb, irrelevant, fun fact. So I'm not sure if you're aware, but in 1992, there was a ship a cargo ship that was carrying around 28,000, rubber duckies fell overboard, and they're still out lost at sea somewhere. So it's supposed to come from Hong Kong to the US and people are still finding them today. Look it up if you don't believe me, I did. I did did about two minutes worth of Google search of some fun facts that I can share. So don't quote me if if things are wrong, but this is all about your your content and the things you want to share. So trying to get over to you introductions, give us a little background into into who you are, what you do, and something that you feel like your colleagues wouldn't necessarily know about you.

Kelsey Weissgold 1:18

Right off the bat. Awesome. Well, I know Todd and I are both excited to be here. So thanks for having us a shot. Um, before I introduce myself, though, just to put it out there. The commentary and thoughts that Todd and I have today, we want to make sure that they're shared us our independent thoughts. We both work for IBM. So these are not official IBM statements just us chatting with you kind of in this forum. But my name is Kelsey at IBM right now. And I work on a team at IBM focused on early professional hiring and intern talent on a global scale. So we help the IBM teams across the world get standard best practices in place about how we go to market as one of one firm and recruit across the world. And I think one Fun fact, my my quarantine Fun fact is that I have become a gardener all of a sudden, trying to grow stuff in a garden outside, which is not very much like me, but I have some tomato plants and some peppers. So yeah, try to be a gardener.

Todd Good 2:18

Nice. Um, well, once again, thanks again. Um, my name is Todd good. Um, I actually lead a digital recruitment team. So kind of right on top of what we're discussing here today. Um, so I manage a team of four, digital recruiters and focus on diversity and exploring ways to reach out to students that were not able to have a physical contact with with your typical campus recruitment. So I've been with a IBM for about eight years was in campus recruitment prior to this specific role. So I have a good background of early professional hiring as a as a whole. A fun fact.

wasn't going to share this one. But I'll share this one.

One thing, not a lot of my college friends know, I met my wife on an internet site. So kind of right on top of where we're at, I guess, recruiting on the personal side, previously to the professional side. So yeah, I guess I'll share that fun fact. There you go.

Rishav Khanal 3:21

Thanks for being vulnerable. We like that. Yeah, I'd like Kelsey, you had a good one. But I think Todd might have. Yeah,

Kelsey Weissgold 3:29

the digital recruiter through and through.


A new study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Rosenfeld found that heterosexual couples are more likely to meet a romantic partner online than through personal contacts and connections.

Todd Good 3:31

Yeah, super professional and personal.

Rishav Khanal 3:35

So I mean, with that being said, let's get into it, right, where we like to be short and sweet. Um, so playing this fictitious scenario, and I've got a little hat on but putting on this hypothetical hat that I'm a campus recruiter, for a company. And my boss has come to me saying, hey, Rishav, I don't know what universities are going to do this summer, but I'm still going to need to hire students. So what you are going to be responsible for is coming up with a campus recruiting digital strategy. I said yes, on the inside, I was freaking out. I had no idea what that meant. I'd heard of it before. But I'm really hoping for you to to kind of give me that a to z game plan on what I need to do, how I need to start and some of the numbers that I need to put out there in order to ensure that it is a successful project. Let me move to additional strategy. So whoever wants to lead it, I kind of want this to be open forum, but handing it over to the experts here.

Todd Good 4:36

Yeah, I can go ahead and take this and I could probably speak for hours about this because it is a topic that you can really deep dive I'll go more high level. And of course, we can always dive in a little bit further. So this was kind of the approach of where we were at probably 18 months 24 months ago. So before this whole pandemic happen. This is something that we were on the forefront as far as looking into as far as more of a virtual Our digital recruitment portal called both things, as far as that's concerned. So, yeah, what we were exploring was, how do we reach more candidates without having to spend more money? Because, of course, budgets limited, resources are limited as well, you only have so much staff as well. So that was some of our overall approach. But if you are building over a digital or virtual recruitment strategy, I say the first thing to look at is, is this gonna be a full time strategy? Is it guns blazing just going to have a full on digital approach? Or is it gonna be a hybrid approach? With this pandemic, I don't think anybody knows that yet. How campuses are going to go back how you're going to do campus recruitment, here, depending on the state, the school, and also your own company, whether they're going to let their employees travel. I know a lot of employees do have restrictions as far as maybe travel or large event sizes, so on so forth. So you're really going to have a lot of different hurdles to overcome with the campus recruitment strategy. But that's probably your first thing to look at. When we were building up, we were going only 18 months ago, this upcoming year, probably will change some of it. But 18 months ago, we were going to go that hybrid approach, we still had a campus recruitment team. But it was my goal to build a virtual recruitment team as well. So working hand in hand with each other, but they're two separate teams.

Kelsey Weissgold 6:31

Yeah, I think that big enough that we've had the luxury to your point of like, being able to slowly ramp up to digital, they've been working on it for a while. So we were years back, we were only campus digital wasn't even a word we understood. And I think visuals come in. And now now it's almost switched. It's more digital, less campus. But we started that off early on by kind of evaluating all the schools we go to, and putting them into kind of buckets or tiers based on how we would interact with those schools. So there were schools early on that emerged as like, great schools for digital sourcing. And they had the right mix the students the right career centers had the right technology and the students presence footprint digitally. But I think now tied in to the work your team has done has shown that you can do this anywhere. It's not just certain schools. But yeah, having that phase stepping stone to get to a full digital methodology was helpful. I can't imagine trying to go all in right at once. I think a lot of companies are probably up against that right now that can be done. I think we're fortunate, though, to be able to gradually get there.

Todd Good 7:28

Exactly. And so once you figure it out what the approach is that you're wanting to accomplish this, then you're starting to set what goals you're looking to accomplish. I when we are building out the team like Kelsey alluded to, we had the luxury to build up team. But some of our goals were increased the high high touch points with candidates. A lot of times with a physical campus event like a career fair, you have five minutes tops talking to candidates face to face, we're with a digital approach, you can spend a lot more time because for instance, my digital team has built up. They're completely virtual recruitment, they're not going physically to any campuses. So they're able to build that rapport with candidates, they can get on the phone with candidates, they can do video chats with candidates, so on so forth. So you're building a lot more of that relationship with the candidates, we're on campus recruitment, you don't always have the time because not only you have short time periods face to face, you're in airports traveling, and you're all you're all over the place. So you don't have that time that you can really spend to nurture those candidates where you can on the virtual pro approach. Some of the other goals were decreased spin, I wanted to decrease, become a little more campus agnostic, decreased travel, spin, travel spins huge. If you have a limited amount of resources as far as a campus team, they're bouncing from one side to the other. The country that costs a lot of money for a half an hour influence session is the spin that you're spending more on travel and you are on the ROI what you actually get with candidates a lot of the time, as I mentioned, the high increase of the high quality candidates, that's a huge thing for us. We also wanted to increase our diversity slate as well, I think every company has diversity initiatives. we're no different. Um, when you are doing digital or virtual recruitment, you can spend a lot more time to figure out the type of candidate going after so little more high quality candidates where career fair, you're dependent on who approaches you. With virtual recruitment, you can figure out who you want to approach. So and even in that hybrid model, even if it's 100%, virtual, or if it's just sourcing for a physical event, but using your virtual tools, you can invite the candidates that you want to come to your actual events. So 100% of the cancer, you're talking to our value you already kind of done that pre screening. Back there were like a career fair. You have no clue who's approaching us kind of going in blindly and hope and you have a very small percentage of the people that may qualify for your overall events. And then overall I enter law school is probably The overall gain experience, which I think I alluded to a little bit more. But yeah, I mean, when you have short touch points on a physical approach, that's your one time kind of first impression, whether well or not being the type of day you're having. There's a lot of different plays into that. I mean, you can communicate your job well, like, in five minutes, a large company like we work for, how do you express every job that we're hiring for? It's very difficult, like, I can look at your resume. It says one thing, but you may be great for another position, if I were to talk to you your soft skills, so on so forth, you can be in it technology, but your soft skills really are better suited for like it sales, I wouldn't have got to know that over a period of time. But in a short timeframe, I really wasn't able to do that, where on the digital side, you can really figure out what it can it's looking for, so on so forth. So I say really setting what your goals to accomplish in a virtual recruitment platform is definitely gonna be huge. Um, and then you're kind of building downline. I don't know if you want to touch more about the goals? Because before I go into the

Kelsey Weissgold 11:03

Yeah, I think just the lead together, one thing you said it just kind of points on those points in, I think your team has seen a lot of success on that diversity recruiting, because of the high touch approach, you're able to happen because of the candidate experience, you can provide digitally, right? I think you learn with sometimes the diversity candidates, they it might require getting a relationship built and knowing the company and trusting the company. And you're still able to do that, even honestly, in many ways more so than you've ever been able to, but it's that high touch candidate experience equals a great diversity pipeline. Yeah.


According to Garter, in this new post-covid world employers will take a greatly increased role in the mental wellbeing of their employees.

Todd Good 11:38

This is kind of the overall approach, I think, is the next step you're going to do to kind of have these in an order of a thought process here. But obviously, you can primarily for a course early professional hire anything that's kind of our subject area. But how are you? If you go if you're going to go into the virtual or digital approach, how are you going to do that your tools, and you have to have some way to source candidates, contact candidates, so on so forth. So a lot of companies have some tools that they may or may not use whether or not promoting any specific companies whatsoever, whether it's LinkedIn recruiter or handshake is a huge job board at certain schools or Simplicity's, and other job board, other schools or whatever the case. And there's a lot of other tools out there, there's tools coming up daily.

2020 Top Job Boards for Diversity Hiring

As far as for AI, there really are, depending on the types of jobs you're hiring for, what you're trying to accomplish, so and so forth. And you could spend days and days and days on demos of all kinds of different tools, it all depends on in the course what your budget pertains. So that's another that's a key factor. Because if you don't have the tools in your tool belt, you're never going to accomplish your goal. So that's something huge to really research and continuously evolve, what tools you're using nine, you may have a contract with a company for this year. Well, it just not accomplishing what you're trying to accomplish. So you always constantly and not I know I spend time, part of my job is also kind of our tools or a vendor manager as well. I'm constantly sitting on demos to kind of explore what we can do. And I right now with this pandemic that we're having, having our virtual events are going to be huge moving forward. So I'm seeing more and more time not on the sourcing tools like I used to. It's more on the event type tools of one on one chats or virtual chats, or how do you host larger virtual career fairs for a company, whatever the case is being seen, what tools are going to be more efficient to host virtual events as we move forward? Because if we can't do face to face like campus recruitment has done in the past, and everything is going to be computer, you're going to be depending on how you can approach and what tools and the biggest thing that I never really thought about it up until this year, I probably should have. But while I was sitting on vendor calls, I always saw what we explored as the employer. Now we're asking more, give us the candidate view. That's huge. I mean, what's the candidate experience side? And that's not something I always, always looked at previously, but it came up a couple months ago, like can we get a demo of the candidate side. And that's huge. Because that's going to be your approach, I know where it really is going to be the way that you attract the candidates. They have a horrible experience signing onto the tool or multiple hoops to jump through. Why did they do it is not valuable to them. So, um, the approach is definitely gonna be huge. And then it's kind of I'll go to other topics and turn it over here. Team setup. So I know you mentioned question your campus recruiter and your boss came to you, so on so forth, for instance, our current team setup for us due to being a little bit larger company, so we have a luxury to do this. We do have a campus team that primarily has what we call our primary schools that they have feet on the ground. And then we have a virtual recruitment team which we basically every school we don't have feet on the ground, they can can basically approach so I depending on the demo tools you can reach hundreds and hundreds and hundreds hundreds of schools, which is thousands and millions of students that you can actually approach. So the virtual team has no limit to who they can actually approach this limit of who's on the internet, their profiles, so on so forth. Um, and then tracking a candidate is your last thing. And this is why we can go hours and hours and hours into and there's something I really was huge about this past year working with Chelsea specifically, as well as tracking your input sources. Depending on the tools you have internally, with your CRM, your ATF, whatever they can track, but you want to know where your candidates are coming from, especially from a virtual approach, because you're even on the campus approach. You're spending all this money no matter where you're spitting in as a company, and you have to be able to track your ROI and where your candidates coming from if if they're coming from these digital approaches, or these digital outreaches what tools have been valuable. And that's where we started tracking that we're able to see, okay, well, this tool is not getting what we want it to I was we signed the contract with with that tool, this tool is netting 95% of our overall candidates, of course, we're going to renew it, then we'll probably expand that partnership as well. So being able to track your input sources, whether it's campus, your diversity conferences, your specific tools, and be able to track that ROI, where you're getting the quality and the value of Kansas and all your hires is key in any camp campus approach. I think more and more companies are doing that. But it's been more valuable for us this year. And we're able to track our invested sources as well. Like we said, we're spending money on a lot of these tools, so forth, so forth. So we're like, okay, we have this amount of here, you're able to prioritize different camps in certain different ways on depending on your sources, so on so forth. So I think that's another huge factor as you build up a virtual approach to be able to know where your students are coming from, are they just stumbled across your careers website? Or are you doing the effort to drive those candidates in? So

I'd say that those are the biggest topics, of course, we're going through one last thing as far as your engagement strategy, sorry. So I put some notes before this call just as looked over the engagement, virtual

Rishav Khanal 17:11

follow ups, if you can see it in the studio, it's glitching right now, but it's eight and a half. This is good. So I'm literally, you're always

Todd Good 17:20

good with notes. I say the last thing with virtual recruitment, I think this is where this year is gonna be a lot different than a lot of because some virtuals recruitment strategies, like I've mentioned early on, were just send a message to candidate apply for a job. That's not an end, hopefully, maybe we need them on campus, that's not going to happen this year I or is going to be very limited as far be able to meet them on campus. So what are you doing as far as your engagement strategy sitting behind a computer, because that's gonna be your first touch point with those candidates, messaging. But one thing that we started incorporating on the virtual side, and I think the campus side is definitely gonna have to incorporate a lot more is Virtual Education session. So inviting him to webinars to here's a LinkedIn profile, how to build up your LinkedIn profile, here's a resume, which I thought was a cool idea, our Canadian team actually establish that we stole it from them and brought it into a virtual aspect last year, we've had like HBCU kickoff calls, and like different topic areas, empowering women and technology, so more of a fireside chat. So some are smaller, some are larger in approach, but having more webinar based approaches for kids and having it like a monthly cycle most like touch points. Um, and then like I said, education as well. So how do you pass assessments if your company has assessments? Or what do how to pass how to ace an interview, like different types like that, you're going to have to have some of those approach those virtual approaches, whether it's pre recorded video that you can send the candidates, or if it's actual QA or panel type discussions, whatever the case may be, that's where I went back to saying, I'm doing a lot more demos as far as virtual events, because that's where you're really gonna have to do so is it where you're doing a lot of pre recorded video, or you're gonna actually have live sessions like, this is where you're able zoom calls, I mean, everybody's doing zoom, oh, I see a teacher and she has zoom calls weekly. Now students, and I teach her how to do zoom a few months ago. But yeah, so that's another thing as far as Oh, we're on gate engagement strategies, just not gonna be able to send messages to students. And because digital in the past may have been like your 25% of the approach of your hiring campus was 75%, or wherever that breakdown was virtual this year is gonna be a huge chunk of your overall strategy. So if you don't Ace it, if you don't know where to go, you can't be dependent on the campus recruiters necessarily go into campuses. Unless your strategy is just every campus its happens to open up in those states and that's how you devise your strategy. I don't know that's the right strategy to go about it. So you are going to be really dependent on your virtual strategy this year.

Sorry, I know that was a lot. So I'll take a look, you'll see,

Kelsey Weissgold 20:09

that was a lot of great content, I think you did paint a picture of like for companies that are getting into this, like where they need to start. And I think one thing that we can emphasize is that, you know, it seems possibly expensive to talk to all these vendors and to set up platforms you haven't used before. And you buy tools that you didn't usually have to spend money on. But I think what we're seeing is a trade off in our budgets that were spent previously sending our hire recruiters to campus, find them out across the country that's now shifted to spending that in investments for for digital sourcing. So it's not impossible to do it with your current budget. I think also, for smaller teams, not impossible to do it with less budget. I mean, you get out your recruiters are really smart on it and know how to find a great pipeline candidates in places that aren't even platforms would pay for its, you know, that's kind of an I guess, the takeaway here too, for any candidates, and maybe watching this, but the point is to make sure you have a good digital footprint, so we can find you on platforms like LinkedIn, that don't require us to go out of our way to purchase a new tool, or even like your personal website, or GitHub projects, whatever it may be to search through all those to find candidates.

Todd Good 21:17

That's a fantastic point, Kelsey, you know, I was just talking to some vendors yesterday or about pushing to students. Yeah, I mean, with candidates, if you're watching this, make sure you're updating your courses on some of these. Yeah, because I, it's not as much major focus anymore. For companies, it's skill based projects, what are your skills, what are your projects, I am in courses as well, because we, as we know, from a company, we look at a syllabus of a school and know which courses would fit the job profile that we're currently hiring for. So if we're able to see and search by your courses, that's a huge factor as well for can so it's not in when we hired developers, and everything else happened, no have like a CS major, it just they had the skill set, or they're self taught, and they're able to fit that mold of that actual job. So updating your your footprint, your personal profile, no matter what it is, in a lot of these vendors, I mean, they have free versions, or schools, like they have a job board. They offer to recruiters and there's no cost. It's just when you want to do the, like huge engagement profiles of some vendors where you had to pay for like a platinum package where Okay, so maybe with every version, even like I mentioned to earlier simplicity and handshake, which are job boards of pretty much every school in the US and other countries as well. They have free versions of the profile where you can search for students. So you don't have to spend the thousands and thousands of dollars to reach students. I mean, LinkedIn is free. And you can search students on that. Yes, you want to step it up, go LinkedIn, recruiter like licenses, of course, you spend extra money there, but there are free versions. So the small, small companies with very limited budget, you can still search for candidates out there. So I wouldn't say you have to have extreme amounts of budget. We don't. I mean, we're able to accomplish a lot with the resources that we have.

Rishav Khanal 23:12

Yeah, this is I'm on a page and a half. So let me go through it chronologically, because I want to make sure I didn't miss something. And we'll kind of put a bow on this, because it seems like the hypothetical campus recruiter me has a lot of work to do. And time is the biggest factor. Right? So I think the first place we started from is asking myself and my team, is our recruiting strategy, specifically digital going to be full time, or is it going to be a hybrid? Right. And I think that's where you all started from. And you have the luxury Kelsey, you kind of mentioned this where you had time to slowly ramp up where there were some recruiters are doing that versus just kind of diving right in. And that's okay. I don't think that scares me. So maybe the hybrid model gives me that luxury. And then the second is understanding Okay, all the schools that I look at, how do I put them in buckets? Do I just place these schools and just boots on the ground feet on the ground? Or do I go all virtual? Like, what are the tears that I'm classifying it as that and then the the KPIs and the numbers. So something that you talked about is increased the high touch point of candidates, decrease the travel, spend or decrease just campus recruiting costs in general, and also increase your diversity slates and last thing was the overall candidate experience all fantastic numbers to really measure besides just how many hires Am I getting off of x tool that's really hard to determine. And it takes a while to accrue those numbers. And then we transitioned a little bit into just the tools that myself and my team are able to possess, right what tools Am I providing them as far as their art But what tools exist in their tool belt to actually go out and do this? And then another layer? This is, I mean, this is a dense topic is, as opposed to just sourcing tools, companies of your size you'd mentioned you're now transitioning towards event type of tools. So virtual chats, virtual events, how are you going to conduct that? And when you're looking at that, asking to double down and look at the candidate view, as well. And the analogy that I always talk to with companies is, Hey, if you're a vendor, and you're only showing companies the employer view, it's kind of like you're taking a personal trainer to a gym saying, hey, you're all your candidates that you can potentially train, but the gym is super crappy. You're expecting people to come into that gym and students to come into that job board, and it's crickets. Well, then the personal trainer a year from now is going to come back to you and that renewal team is screwed. They have no fighting chance. Um, and and then the sort of the last part is just your overall team setup. Like what is that going to sort of look like we kind of touch base on that. And lastly, when we look at education sessions, focusing on how to conduct ask resume roast, I love that HBCU making those events things like that. So lots of good things to cover. Thank you both for for hopping on. I think we kick butt and anybody listening to this if you're like me, I know you're gonna want to close this podcast and get to work as soon as possible to cover. So thank you guys.

Todd Good 26:35

Course. Anytime. Thank you