9 Seasons and 208 EPISODES later..... 😵

Let me ask you something - have you ever watched a series you loved for YEARS only to HATE it after watching the finale?

If so - welcome to my feelings about How I Met Your Mother

FYI -- this feeling is described as the "peak-end-rule"

Just a fancy psychology term that means people basically judge an experience by its peak and its end rather than every moment

So - what does this have to do with your virtual internships?!? Summarizing a few key points from my conversations with Kristen Garbarino (Intern Program Manager at SAS), here's what you need to think about:

1️⃣ When you make people feel good, they are likely to love you back (Duh, right...?)

BUT a perfect example of something to think about is your executive lunch & learn series. Remind those leaders to keep it short AND keep it lighthearted

Yes, they're college students, but they're not aliens... They're humans and humans like to laugh

2️⃣ Good ol' "thank you" goes a long way

For many managers, this is their FIRST time managing an intern REMOTELY Do they know how to do it?

Do they know how to properly evaluate them and send them off properly?!

It's up to you to help them create a process to thank them and send them off the right way

The 5 Ways Are Discussed In The Video Tactical and Timely - ENJOY ✔️

Rishav Khanal 0:00

Everybody, welcome back to recruiting you where we really get strategic about campus recruiting. Super excited to have our guests on as we unveil the shiny new studio, Kristen. Welcome. Now before we get into the introductions, because I'm sure our listeners are kind of dying to hear a little bit about what you've got prepared and everything like that, we like to start off the podcast with a really irrelevant, dumb Fun fact, if you will. So the only word in the English language that ends in m - t is the word dreamt. A little fun fact. So as our listeners are kind of pondering on that, why don't you go ahead and give us a little bit of background into you? Why campus recruiting, and also share a little bit about something that your friends or colleagues would necessarily know about you.

Kristen Garbarino 0:54

Thanks so much for having me for having me. Rishav I'm excited to be here, hopefully share some insights. Kristen Garbarino currently intern program manager at SAS, our global headquarters is based in Cary, North Carolina, just outside of Raleigh, manage an intern program about 280 interns typically on an annual basis, and have been in kind of the HR college recruiting space for about nine years now. And when I think about my career, and the days that I've gotten super excited to get out of bed every morning is when I get to interact with students and connect them with their passions. meeting our interns on day one started the program and seeing them grow and develop is just so rewarding and phenomenal. So that's why I've been in this kind of industry and career. And a fun fact about me that maybe my colleagues or peers don't know. One time I went bungee jumping in the Swiss Alps. And it was awesome. I'm glad we were 450 feet up in the air on a gondola. cablecar over a lake and you jumped out. And it was absolutely the scariest thing I've ever done.

Highest Bungee Jump in the world: 216 meters: Bloukrans Bridge, Western Cape, South Africa

I don't think anyone could pay me to do it again. But really glad I took that opportunity.

Rishav Khanal 2:18

Dang, now I know that I don't know if you classify yourself as an adrenaline junkie, but I feel

your you're like, probably really amped as you touch ground. That's awesome. Um, so with that being said, let's get into it. Right. I think we're really excited in the scenario that I think a lot of recruiters right now are finding themselves in intern program managers is my boss came to me. Thankfully, we are still continuing on with our internship program. But he said, Rishav, I want you to take this thing virtual. And I'm like, Okay, sure. Kind of panicking on the inside, because I have no idea what to do. So what am I doing? How do I get this thing started to make sure that we're really creating an awesome internship program, but everything's got to be virtual now.

Kristen Garbarino 3:11

Great question.

It's interesting, you ask that that set it up that way, because that's kind of how I was feeling about five weeks ago, in March, when our company did decide, virtual is going to be the best option just due to the unknowns with COVID-19. So by all means, I do not have it all figured out. But the things I want to talk through would be, I think, best case scenario. And then maybe some options be, you know, different scenarios if you don't have those actions. And I'll share a little bit about what we've done with our intern program to when I think about starting out to collect some ideas to be able to present to your leadership team for recommendations, because ultimately, you're going to want to get their buy in on your plan is think about your network. So connecting with, you know, local companies in your geography, other companies in your industry. So it's time to kind of work that network and know that good brainstorming doesn't happen alone. I was really fortunate that we got a weekly call going with about 10 to 12 other organizations in the Raleigh Durham area that included some other tech companies, other industries. And we all just said, Hey, we're going through this together. What ideas are you guys moving forward on what's working for you, and have really kept a close network to share best practices, knowing that we're all going through the same thing and really have the same end goal is that we want to be able to move forward with our internships and make it a best in class experience virtually. So that would kind of be my recommendation for first step is doing that benchmarking.

There's also to just a lot of great research and other resources out there, kind of in the university recruiting space. We've been fortunate to be connected. With some research companies that have been doing surveys with students on a weekly basis getting a pulse from what anxieties do students have, what information do they need? What communications would be helpful for them throughout this time, so really understanding and what what the market surveys is saying. So finally, once you've kind of collected some facts and thoughts on your plan, next step is getting that buy in from your leadership and doing that as quickly as possible, right, so you can move forward with the plan and communicate the plan to students and managers. So developing that close partnership, whether it's with your HR leadership that really has oversight, you know, of the intern program, that's how it is in my company, but also to get invited from, you know, the business leaders that are actually going to have interns in their departments on their teams, and fully understanding with them. Can the project work actually be done virtually and successfully? Do we have all the resources and the right managers in place to enable these students to onboard virtually think about it, if you're in a manager, shoes, managers are at home, maybe they've got numerous kids at home, they're already trying to manage their teams virtually for the first time, do they feel like they can take on this student that they've never even met, and get them up to skill. So we kind of went through a review process to figure that out and determine that majority of our positions, you know, can be done virtually and so, so fortunate. I think not every company is going to be in that situation. And maybe, if that is the case, an alternative solution could be thinking about some educational training opportunities to offer to interns, maybe it's a eight week long project that interns could work on, and you've got a subset of managers that are willing to help with that kind of component of internship. So offering some type of alternative solution so that they still get an experience with your company, and they still get to learn and grow.

Rishav Khanal 7:03

Well, I was just gonna say, the first part, actually was like a pretty big surprise to me that like you gathered everybody together. And you know, we kind of think about competitors, right? In the business landscape. You're so right, everybody's going through the same thing. So be willing to kind of share some some ideas there. I mean, did the conversation flow itself naturally, because I envisioned for a company like us that's a little bit smaller, talking to a company, like yourself, where you're managing 280 interns, the scope of the problems, at least gut feeling tells me it's a lot different. But did you not find that to be the case when you're in the roundtable conversation? Yeah,

Kristen Garbarino 7:44

so we did sit down, I definitely can't take credit for this. My manager is so well connected in the area, she found herself just naturally reaching out to some of her peers and realized, okay, there's some opportunity to actually get on the call and kind of have a set agenda. So the kind of the committee did send out a survey to understand, okay, what points would be helpful to discuss on the call, so that we use our time effectively, we found that we were able, for the most part to share helpful information that was helpful for everyone. I think there's definitely some organizations on the call that were in different positions. For example, for whatever reason for security and it purposes, one company did share that and we're going to be able to deploy laptops. So they were looking at alternative solutions. For that if interns were going to be able to get the internship from there, you know, I would hardware PCs.

Half of the internships in the U.S. were canceled in the spring of 2020

Source: Covid-19 And The Lost College Internship

Rishav Khanal 8:41

Man, that's you talking about pushing a boulder up a mountain, if you can't deploy laptops, and you gotta come up with something creatively, thankfully, we're not in that boat. Um, but it talking about the actual internship experience, right, I and I in, you know, we can talk about productivity. And I think, yes, there are going to be certain inherent challenges that come with that. But I also want to make sure that our interns have an amazing experience and all that special sauce that went into the company and, and rubbing shoulders with the people that you get to meet. I mean, this is a really vital time for a lot of students trying to enter the workforce for the first time. So like, how do you create a culture? Like what are some things that you and your team have kind of discussed to make sure that still remains intact?

Kristen Garbarino 9:26

Yeah, that's super important. And definitely, a lot of brainstorming is going into that. We're still getting that finalized. But a few things that we've got on the plan is getting the managers ready so going to facilitate some manager enablement and training sessions to help them think through what does good look like the first three or four weeks of the internship. That's things like going to ask them to connect daily with their new interns over the webcam, you know, making that connection, making sure the intern has either like a mentor or buddy really assigned to them. their experience. So those managers get busy. Someone else on the team that would be excited to invest time in developing the intern that can help build that connection and kind of launch their learning and their projects, help them with those technical problems. But then beyond that, I think week one is vital still hosts that orientation, we always kind of offer a half day in person orientation. So we really moved all of those guest speakers and content to be virtual. We use Microsoft Teams as our platform. But zoom is another great one out there, we're going to be using ms teams, day one, to invite different guest speakers and talk about what to expect for the duration internship tips on how to work virtually, but introducing them to the company, the culture, and kind of just knowing we're here to make this as awesome as we can. And we're going to make it interactive, the best of our ability. So really offering I think at least two kind of intern wide events per week is what has worked well for us in the past for in person. So taking a look at those in person events, which one can you switch to be virtual? What are some new ones that we haven't done in the past that could be virtual. So when I think about the social component, you know, building that network of peers and community and camaraderie, maybe it's some virtual yoga sessions, it's trivia or Jeopardy night, over ms teams. Maybe we do some team building things, you have a scavenger hunt in your house, and we're competing against each other. And then professional development activities. That's a huge part of our internship experience beyond just your day to day project work, we're able to offer things like doing an analysis on the disc profile. So kind of figuring out how you relate to others that can be done virtually. Also to we've got a session scheduled on things like navigating change, you're joining this company, virtually How do you adapt to this change, partnering with our LinkedIn and social media team on building out your professional brand on your LinkedIn profile, that can be done virtually. So I'm finding that a lot of the content I did have built out and sessions can go virtual, there are some that it won't be able to be done virtually, and just kind of have to be okay with some things are out of our control.

Rishav Khanal 12:25

In that's a fantastic point. I mean, because if I'm just thinking about it, if I can develop, you know, my interns to get their professional competencies skills, and really flex those muscles, they're still getting the value out of that internship experience. And if I can teach my managers and enable them to really facilitate that relationship, and then yeah, like, there are certain challenges that just go away from that. I mean, specifically from a content standpoint, because I'm moving there to like, I'm thinking about ways to really captivate an audience and deliver a lot of these trainings, virtually, what are some advices or tips that you've gotten, and to make sure that everybody stays engaged. So I don't want it to be super boring, and everybody just has their videos off. But I don't want to be telling people to, you know, turn their microphones off. If they're not talking every 15 minutes, I want it to be engaging.

Kristen Garbarino 13:17

Yeah, that's a great point. Because you could easily tap out right, you could turn your webcam off and not participate. so fortunate to have some really engaging guest speakers that we're going to have part of these sessions that are that are employees of the company. And I think limiting each session to 45 minutes over the webcam is the best practice that I've been researching. Often we get excited if you're a guest speaker, right, and you've got a lot of content developed. And you're like, Okay, I'm going for 60 minutes, but been doing some research that really after like 35-40 minutes, you start to lose people over the webcam, and it's so different being at your computer versus an in person session for a reason your mind is focused in a different way. So I think that's definitely one good tip. But then preparing your guest speakers, whatever session they're presenting on, to let them know, we want to make this fun and light. And this is a group of college students. So come up with some creative ways to get them engaged on their webcams, doing q&a and having them participate. I know that zoom has some like breakout chat sessions that you can use. So that would be a cool way to do some group activities, even within a larger session.

Rishav Khanal 14:32

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I think you can like have individual people or like, you know, groups of smaller cohorts go into their own rooms discuss and then come back as well. Um, so I kind of want to make sure I haven't missed anything yet so far, because there's a lot of good stuff. So first, which I didn't even think about is gathering a group of local, you know, companies kind of in my area to discuss best practices, and then talking to my leadership team to really get the buy in of making sure all the leads Just takes on the housekeeping items are set for those interns to be successful. And then there's a smaller subset of that, what it seems like to have managers and really enable those managers to make sure that they're giving those interns or at least you know, what they think is of great experience. And then for the interns, make sure that you are also enabling them by building out content related to professional development skills, giving them and assigning them a buddy that they can go to, that's not their manager, right, so they can have that informal relationship. And then I believe you mentioned, like having, like, virtual sessions, so that you can help them navigate through change kind of pieces and ties into that content as well. And then making sure for the content in order to be engaging, limited to about 45 minutes, because you start to lose people after after that time. And I think we've all you know, been guilty of that, and create some engaging speakers and keep it light hearted. So I've got lots of work to do anything that I might have missed from point A to present point z, maybe where we are,

Kristen Garbarino 16:04

I think the final thing is thinking through intern programs are a pipeline to full time opportunities. So making sure there's still that opportunity for managers to effectively evaluate performance, and make decisions about full time offers for those that are going into their senior year. So making sure managers feel like they can really evaluate them with that virtual relationship. How do you get creative on that? I think one component that we're going to incorporate is making sure final presentations can still happen. And that might be a smaller group that they're presenting to. But that's a huge component of that evaluation pieces that into the summer delivery of of results.

Rishav Khanal 16:44

And I'm also thinking, as you said, that is I have to now think about my interns, and teaching them and enabling them to deliver virtual presentations, because it might be a little bit different than doing it in person. But that is an excellent point is to somehow go back to my managers and give them the space and the opportunity to still evaluate the intern. Because you're right, that's there's a reason why an internship program exists. And the crux of it, I mean, experience and all the side it is the pipeline for future talent makes sense. Like I said, I've got lots of work to do. It seems like lots of recruiters everybody's in the same boat. I think something that you open my eyes towards is exactly that point. Everybody is kind of now because of this, this pandemic situation, more or less in the same setting. So relying on our counterparts, relying on these people to brainstorm and go to advice, something I'm gonna hold myself accountable to do more. But thank you again for coming on. This is a lot of fun. I had lots of takeaways, lots of things to do, but anything else otherwise I think we're good to go.

Kristen Garbarino 17:47

I think you got it all Rishav.

We've got a lot to do over the next month, but I'm excited excited for the challenge and I think you're gonna be great. Awesome.

Connect with Kristen HERE

Rishav Khanal 17:55

Thank you. All right.

Updated: Nov 11, 2020

Thinking a tool is going to solve all your campus recruiting needs is like thinking you’ll get JACKED right after you purchase a gym membership…

Hate to break it you, but that’s not happening 😅

With so many companies having to switch their campus recruiting efforts overnight, the question remains…

How and where do I start?

Before you start pulling your hair out

Here’s a digital strategy system check from the pros themselves Todd Good & Kelsey Weissgold

1 Define if your digital recruiting strategy will be 100% digital or a hybrid model (sounds simple, but often goes unanswered)

2 Define how you’ll measure your digital recruiting efforts besides just the total number of hires. Hiring is an exercise in patience so you'll need to start tracking essential inputs such as the number of touchpoints per candidate, the total cost of travel saved or the ability to bring on a representative pipeline

3 Define how you’ll create engaging events; sourcing is only half the battle. How will you create engaging and educational events for candidates besides a 30-minute infomercial known as an “info-session?"

Not sure how, but I somehow suckered Todd & Kelsey to providing a ton of value for $0

Maybe it was the hat?

Rishav Khanal 0:00

Welcome back to recruitingU. And I know things look a little bit different. Not a black shirt and a better hat on. But no worries, folks, I am getting a haircut really, really soon Fingers crossed. But I'm excited to have, frankly, two of my favorite people on and No, I don't think I say this to everybody. I hope not. But either way, Todd Kelsey, excited to have you on. I'm excited for introductions and to really dive into the topic that I think it's going to be relevant for all of us listening to this. But as you all know, before we dive into all that we'd like to start these things off with a really dumb, irrelevant, fun fact. So I'm not sure if you're aware, but in 1992, there was a ship a cargo ship that was carrying around 28,000, rubber duckies fell overboard, and they're still out lost at sea somewhere. So it's supposed to come from Hong Kong to the US and people are still finding them today. Look it up if you don't believe me, I did. I did did about two minutes worth of Google search of some fun facts that I can share. So don't quote me if if things are wrong, but this is all about your your content and the things you want to share. So trying to get over to you introductions, give us a little background into into who you are, what you do, and something that you feel like your colleagues wouldn't necessarily know about you.

Kelsey Weissgold 1:18

Right off the bat. Awesome. Well, I know Todd and I are both excited to be here. So thanks for having us a shot. Um, before I introduce myself, though, just to put it out there. The commentary and thoughts that Todd and I have today, we want to make sure that they're shared us our independent thoughts. We both work for IBM. So these are not official IBM statements just us chatting with you kind of in this forum. But my name is Kelsey at IBM right now. And I work on a team at IBM focused on early professional hiring and intern talent on a global scale. So we help the IBM teams across the world get standard best practices in place about how we go to market as one of one firm and recruit across the world. And I think one Fun fact, my my quarantine Fun fact is that I have become a gardener all of a sudden, trying to grow stuff in a garden outside, which is not very much like me, but I have some tomato plants and some peppers. So yeah, try to be a gardener.

Todd Good 2:18

Nice. Um, well, once again, thanks again. Um, my name is Todd good. Um, I actually lead a digital recruitment team. So kind of right on top of what we're discussing here today. Um, so I manage a team of four, digital recruiters and focus on diversity and exploring ways to reach out to students that were not able to have a physical contact with with your typical campus recruitment. So I've been with a IBM for about eight years was in campus recruitment prior to this specific role. So I have a good background of early professional hiring as a as a whole. A fun fact.

wasn't going to share this one. But I'll share this one.

One thing, not a lot of my college friends know, I met my wife on an internet site. So kind of right on top of where we're at, I guess, recruiting on the personal side, previously to the professional side. So yeah, I guess I'll share that fun fact. There you go.

Rishav Khanal 3:21

Thanks for being vulnerable. We like that. Yeah, I'd like Kelsey, you had a good one. But I think Todd might have. Yeah,

Kelsey Weissgold 3:29

the digital recruiter through and through.


A new study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Rosenfeld found that heterosexual couples are more likely to meet a romantic partner online than through personal contacts and connections.

Todd Good 3:31

Yeah, super professional and personal.

Rishav Khanal 3:35

So I mean, with that being said, let's get into it, right, where we like to be short and sweet. Um, so playing this fictitious scenario, and I've got a little hat on but putting on this hypothetical hat that I'm a campus recruiter, for a company. And my boss has come to me saying, hey, Rishav, I don't know what universities are going to do this summer, but I'm still going to need to hire students. So what you are going to be responsible for is coming up with a campus recruiting digital strategy. I said yes, on the inside, I was freaking out. I had no idea what that meant. I'd heard of it before. But I'm really hoping for you to to kind of give me that a to z game plan on what I need to do, how I need to start and some of the numbers that I need to put out there in order to ensure that it is a successful project. Let me move to additional strategy. So whoever wants to lead it, I kind of want this to be open forum, but handing it over to the experts here.

Todd Good 4:36

Yeah, I can go ahead and take this and I could probably speak for hours about this because it is a topic that you can really deep dive I'll go more high level. And of course, we can always dive in a little bit further. So this was kind of the approach of where we were at probably 18 months 24 months ago. So before this whole pandemic happen. This is something that we were on the forefront as far as looking into as far as more of a virtual Our digital recruitment portal called both things, as far as that's concerned. So, yeah, what we were exploring was, how do we reach more candidates without having to spend more money? Because, of course, budgets limited, resources are limited as well, you only have so much staff as well. So that was some of our overall approach. But if you are building over a digital or virtual recruitment strategy, I say the first thing to look at is, is this gonna be a full time strategy? Is it guns blazing just going to have a full on digital approach? Or is it gonna be a hybrid approach? With this pandemic, I don't think anybody knows that yet. How campuses are going to go back how you're going to do campus recruitment, here, depending on the state, the school, and also your own company, whether they're going to let their employees travel. I know a lot of employees do have restrictions as far as maybe travel or large event sizes, so on so forth. So you're really going to have a lot of different hurdles to overcome with the campus recruitment strategy. But that's probably your first thing to look at. When we were building up, we were going only 18 months ago, this upcoming year, probably will change some of it. But 18 months ago, we were going to go that hybrid approach, we still had a campus recruitment team. But it was my goal to build a virtual recruitment team as well. So working hand in hand with each other, but they're two separate teams.

Kelsey Weissgold 6:31

Yeah, I think that big enough that we've had the luxury to your point of like, being able to slowly ramp up to digital, they've been working on it for a while. So we were years back, we were only campus digital wasn't even a word we understood. And I think visuals come in. And now now it's almost switched. It's more digital, less campus. But we started that off early on by kind of evaluating all the schools we go to, and putting them into kind of buckets or tiers based on how we would interact with those schools. So there were schools early on that emerged as like, great schools for digital sourcing. And they had the right mix the students the right career centers had the right technology and the students presence footprint digitally. But I think now tied in to the work your team has done has shown that you can do this anywhere. It's not just certain schools. But yeah, having that phase stepping stone to get to a full digital methodology was helpful. I can't imagine trying to go all in right at once. I think a lot of companies are probably up against that right now that can be done. I think we're fortunate, though, to be able to gradually get there.

Todd Good 7:28

Exactly. And so once you figure it out what the approach is that you're wanting to accomplish this, then you're starting to set what goals you're looking to accomplish. I when we are building out the team like Kelsey alluded to, we had the luxury to build up team. But some of our goals were increased the high high touch points with candidates. A lot of times with a physical campus event like a career fair, you have five minutes tops talking to candidates face to face, we're with a digital approach, you can spend a lot more time because for instance, my digital team has built up. They're completely virtual recruitment, they're not going physically to any campuses. So they're able to build that rapport with candidates, they can get on the phone with candidates, they can do video chats with candidates, so on so forth. So you're building a lot more of that relationship with the candidates, we're on campus recruitment, you don't always have the time because not only you have short time periods face to face, you're in airports traveling, and you're all you're all over the place. So you don't have that time that you can really spend to nurture those candidates where you can on the virtual pro approach. Some of the other goals were decreased spin, I wanted to decrease, become a little more campus agnostic, decreased travel, spin, travel spins huge. If you have a limited amount of resources as far as a campus team, they're bouncing from one side to the other. The country that costs a lot of money for a half an hour influence session is the spin that you're spending more on travel and you are on the ROI what you actually get with candidates a lot of the time, as I mentioned, the high increase of the high quality candidates, that's a huge thing for us. We also wanted to increase our diversity slate as well, I think every company has diversity initiatives. we're no different. Um, when you are doing digital or virtual recruitment, you can spend a lot more time to figure out the type of candidate going after so little more high quality candidates where career fair, you're dependent on who approaches you. With virtual recruitment, you can figure out who you want to approach. So and even in that hybrid model, even if it's 100%, virtual, or if it's just sourcing for a physical event, but using your virtual tools, you can invite the candidates that you want to come to your actual events. So 100% of the cancer, you're talking to our value you already kind of done that pre screening. Back there were like a career fair. You have no clue who's approaching us kind of going in blindly and hope and you have a very small percentage of the people that may qualify for your overall events. And then overall I enter law school is probably The overall gain experience, which I think I alluded to a little bit more. But yeah, I mean, when you have short touch points on a physical approach, that's your one time kind of first impression, whether well or not being the type of day you're having. There's a lot of different plays into that. I mean, you can communicate your job well, like, in five minutes, a large company like we work for, how do you express every job that we're hiring for? It's very difficult, like, I can look at your resume. It says one thing, but you may be great for another position, if I were to talk to you your soft skills, so on so forth, you can be in it technology, but your soft skills really are better suited for like it sales, I wouldn't have got to know that over a period of time. But in a short timeframe, I really wasn't able to do that, where on the digital side, you can really figure out what it can it's looking for, so on so forth. So I say really setting what your goals to accomplish in a virtual recruitment platform is definitely gonna be huge. Um, and then you're kind of building downline. I don't know if you want to touch more about the goals? Because before I go into the

Kelsey Weissgold 11:03

Yeah, I think just the lead together, one thing you said it just kind of points on those points in, I think your team has seen a lot of success on that diversity recruiting, because of the high touch approach, you're able to happen because of the candidate experience, you can provide digitally, right? I think you learn with sometimes the diversity candidates, they it might require getting a relationship built and knowing the company and trusting the company. And you're still able to do that, even honestly, in many ways more so than you've ever been able to, but it's that high touch candidate experience equals a great diversity pipeline. Yeah.


According to Garter, in this new post-covid world employers will take a greatly increased role in the mental wellbeing of their employees.

Todd Good 11:38

This is kind of the overall approach, I think, is the next step you're going to do to kind of have these in an order of a thought process here. But obviously, you can primarily for a course early professional hire anything that's kind of our subject area. But how are you? If you go if you're going to go into the virtual or digital approach, how are you going to do that your tools, and you have to have some way to source candidates, contact candidates, so on so forth. So a lot of companies have some tools that they may or may not use whether or not promoting any specific companies whatsoever, whether it's LinkedIn recruiter or handshake is a huge job board at certain schools or Simplicity's, and other job board, other schools or whatever the case. And there's a lot of other tools out there, there's tools coming up daily.

2020 Top Job Boards for Diversity Hiring

As far as for AI, there really are, depending on the types of jobs you're hiring for, what you're trying to accomplish, so and so forth. And you could spend days and days and days on demos of all kinds of different tools, it all depends on in the course what your budget pertains. So that's another that's a key factor. Because if you don't have the tools in your tool belt, you're never going to accomplish your goal. So that's something huge to really research and continuously evolve, what tools you're using nine, you may have a contract with a company for this year. Well, it just not accomplishing what you're trying to accomplish. So you always constantly and not I know I spend time, part of my job is also kind of our tools or a vendor manager as well. I'm constantly sitting on demos to kind of explore what we can do. And I right now with this pandemic that we're having, having our virtual events are going to be huge moving forward. So I'm seeing more and more time not on the sourcing tools like I used to. It's more on the event type tools of one on one chats or virtual chats, or how do you host larger virtual career fairs for a company, whatever the case is being seen, what tools are going to be more efficient to host virtual events as we move forward? Because if we can't do face to face like campus recruitment has done in the past, and everything is going to be computer, you're going to be depending on how you can approach and what tools and the biggest thing that I never really thought about it up until this year, I probably should have. But while I was sitting on vendor calls, I always saw what we explored as the employer. Now we're asking more, give us the candidate view. That's huge. I mean, what's the candidate experience side? And that's not something I always, always looked at previously, but it came up a couple months ago, like can we get a demo of the candidate side. And that's huge. Because that's going to be your approach, I know where it really is going to be the way that you attract the candidates. They have a horrible experience signing onto the tool or multiple hoops to jump through. Why did they do it is not valuable to them. So, um, the approach is definitely gonna be huge. And then it's kind of I'll go to other topics and turn it over here. Team setup. So I know you mentioned question your campus recruiter and your boss came to you, so on so forth, for instance, our current team setup for us due to being a little bit larger company, so we have a luxury to do this. We do have a campus team that primarily has what we call our primary schools that they have feet on the ground. And then we have a virtual recruitment team which we basically every school we don't have feet on the ground, they can can basically approach so I depending on the demo tools you can reach hundreds and hundreds and hundreds hundreds of schools, which is thousands and millions of students that you can actually approach. So the virtual team has no limit to who they can actually approach this limit of who's on the internet, their profiles, so on so forth. Um, and then tracking a candidate is your last thing. And this is why we can go hours and hours and hours into and there's something I really was huge about this past year working with Chelsea specifically, as well as tracking your input sources. Depending on the tools you have internally, with your CRM, your ATF, whatever they can track, but you want to know where your candidates are coming from, especially from a virtual approach, because you're even on the campus approach. You're spending all this money no matter where you're spitting in as a company, and you have to be able to track your ROI and where your candidates coming from if if they're coming from these digital approaches, or these digital outreaches what tools have been valuable. And that's where we started tracking that we're able to see, okay, well, this tool is not getting what we want it to I was we signed the contract with with that tool, this tool is netting 95% of our overall candidates, of course, we're going to renew it, then we'll probably expand that partnership as well. So being able to track your input sources, whether it's campus, your diversity conferences, your specific tools, and be able to track that ROI, where you're getting the quality and the value of Kansas and all your hires is key in any camp campus approach. I think more and more companies are doing that. But it's been more valuable for us this year. And we're able to track our invested sources as well. Like we said, we're spending money on a lot of these tools, so forth, so forth. So we're like, okay, we have this amount of here, you're able to prioritize different camps in certain different ways on depending on your sources, so on so forth. So I think that's another huge factor as you build up a virtual approach to be able to know where your students are coming from, are they just stumbled across your careers website? Or are you doing the effort to drive those candidates in? So

I'd say that those are the biggest topics, of course, we're going through one last thing as far as your engagement strategy, sorry. So I put some notes before this call just as looked over the engagement, virtual

Rishav Khanal 17:11

follow ups, if you can see it in the studio, it's glitching right now, but it's eight and a half. This is good. So I'm literally, you're always

Todd Good 17:20

good with notes. I say the last thing with virtual recruitment, I think this is where this year is gonna be a lot different than a lot of because some virtuals recruitment strategies, like I've mentioned early on, were just send a message to candidate apply for a job. That's not an end, hopefully, maybe we need them on campus, that's not going to happen this year I or is going to be very limited as far be able to meet them on campus. So what are you doing as far as your engagement strategy sitting behind a computer, because that's gonna be your first touch point with those candidates, messaging. But one thing that we started incorporating on the virtual side, and I think the campus side is definitely gonna have to incorporate a lot more is Virtual Education session. So inviting him to webinars to here's a LinkedIn profile, how to build up your LinkedIn profile, here's a resume, which I thought was a cool idea, our Canadian team actually establish that we stole it from them and brought it into a virtual aspect last year, we've had like HBCU kickoff calls, and like different topic areas, empowering women and technology, so more of a fireside chat. So some are smaller, some are larger in approach, but having more webinar based approaches for kids and having it like a monthly cycle most like touch points. Um, and then like I said, education as well. So how do you pass assessments if your company has assessments? Or what do how to pass how to ace an interview, like different types like that, you're going to have to have some of those approach those virtual approaches, whether it's pre recorded video that you can send the candidates, or if it's actual QA or panel type discussions, whatever the case may be, that's where I went back to saying, I'm doing a lot more demos as far as virtual events, because that's where you're really gonna have to do so is it where you're doing a lot of pre recorded video, or you're gonna actually have live sessions like, this is where you're able zoom calls, I mean, everybody's doing zoom, oh, I see a teacher and she has zoom calls weekly. Now students, and I teach her how to do zoom a few months ago. But yeah, so that's another thing as far as Oh, we're on gate engagement strategies, just not gonna be able to send messages to students. And because digital in the past may have been like your 25% of the approach of your hiring campus was 75%, or wherever that breakdown was virtual this year is gonna be a huge chunk of your overall strategy. So if you don't Ace it, if you don't know where to go, you can't be dependent on the campus recruiters necessarily go into campuses. Unless your strategy is just every campus its happens to open up in those states and that's how you devise your strategy. I don't know that's the right strategy to go about it. So you are going to be really dependent on your virtual strategy this year.

Sorry, I know that was a lot. So I'll take a look, you'll see,

Kelsey Weissgold 20:09

that was a lot of great content, I think you did paint a picture of like for companies that are getting into this, like where they need to start. And I think one thing that we can emphasize is that, you know, it seems possibly expensive to talk to all these vendors and to set up platforms you haven't used before. And you buy tools that you didn't usually have to spend money on. But I think what we're seeing is a trade off in our budgets that were spent previously sending our hire recruiters to campus, find them out across the country that's now shifted to spending that in investments for for digital sourcing. So it's not impossible to do it with your current budget. I think also, for smaller teams, not impossible to do it with less budget. I mean, you get out your recruiters are really smart on it and know how to find a great pipeline candidates in places that aren't even platforms would pay for its, you know, that's kind of an I guess, the takeaway here too, for any candidates, and maybe watching this, but the point is to make sure you have a good digital footprint, so we can find you on platforms like LinkedIn, that don't require us to go out of our way to purchase a new tool, or even like your personal website, or GitHub projects, whatever it may be to search through all those to find candidates.

Todd Good 21:17

That's a fantastic point, Kelsey, you know, I was just talking to some vendors yesterday or about pushing to students. Yeah, I mean, with candidates, if you're watching this, make sure you're updating your courses on some of these. Yeah, because I, it's not as much major focus anymore. For companies, it's skill based projects, what are your skills, what are your projects, I am in courses as well, because we, as we know, from a company, we look at a syllabus of a school and know which courses would fit the job profile that we're currently hiring for. So if we're able to see and search by your courses, that's a huge factor as well for can so it's not in when we hired developers, and everything else happened, no have like a CS major, it just they had the skill set, or they're self taught, and they're able to fit that mold of that actual job. So updating your your footprint, your personal profile, no matter what it is, in a lot of these vendors, I mean, they have free versions, or schools, like they have a job board. They offer to recruiters and there's no cost. It's just when you want to do the, like huge engagement profiles of some vendors where you had to pay for like a platinum package where Okay, so maybe with every version, even like I mentioned to earlier simplicity and handshake, which are job boards of pretty much every school in the US and other countries as well. They have free versions of the profile where you can search for students. So you don't have to spend the thousands and thousands of dollars to reach students. I mean, LinkedIn is free. And you can search students on that. Yes, you want to step it up, go LinkedIn, recruiter like licenses, of course, you spend extra money there, but there are free versions. So the small, small companies with very limited budget, you can still search for candidates out there. So I wouldn't say you have to have extreme amounts of budget. We don't. I mean, we're able to accomplish a lot with the resources that we have.

Rishav Khanal 23:12

Yeah, this is I'm on a page and a half. So let me go through it chronologically, because I want to make sure I didn't miss something. And we'll kind of put a bow on this, because it seems like the hypothetical campus recruiter me has a lot of work to do. And time is the biggest factor. Right? So I think the first place we started from is asking myself and my team, is our recruiting strategy, specifically digital going to be full time, or is it going to be a hybrid? Right. And I think that's where you all started from. And you have the luxury Kelsey, you kind of mentioned this where you had time to slowly ramp up where there were some recruiters are doing that versus just kind of diving right in. And that's okay. I don't think that scares me. So maybe the hybrid model gives me that luxury. And then the second is understanding Okay, all the schools that I look at, how do I put them in buckets? Do I just place these schools and just boots on the ground feet on the ground? Or do I go all virtual? Like, what are the tears that I'm classifying it as that and then the the KPIs and the numbers. So something that you talked about is increased the high touch point of candidates, decrease the travel, spend or decrease just campus recruiting costs in general, and also increase your diversity slates and last thing was the overall candidate experience all fantastic numbers to really measure besides just how many hires Am I getting off of x tool that's really hard to determine. And it takes a while to accrue those numbers. And then we transitioned a little bit into just the tools that myself and my team are able to possess, right what tools Am I providing them as far as their art But what tools exist in their tool belt to actually go out and do this? And then another layer? This is, I mean, this is a dense topic is, as opposed to just sourcing tools, companies of your size you'd mentioned you're now transitioning towards event type of tools. So virtual chats, virtual events, how are you going to conduct that? And when you're looking at that, asking to double down and look at the candidate view, as well. And the analogy that I always talk to with companies is, Hey, if you're a vendor, and you're only showing companies the employer view, it's kind of like you're taking a personal trainer to a gym saying, hey, you're all your candidates that you can potentially train, but the gym is super crappy. You're expecting people to come into that gym and students to come into that job board, and it's crickets. Well, then the personal trainer a year from now is going to come back to you and that renewal team is screwed. They have no fighting chance. Um, and and then the sort of the last part is just your overall team setup. Like what is that going to sort of look like we kind of touch base on that. And lastly, when we look at education sessions, focusing on how to conduct ask resume roast, I love that HBCU making those events things like that. So lots of good things to cover. Thank you both for for hopping on. I think we kick butt and anybody listening to this if you're like me, I know you're gonna want to close this podcast and get to work as soon as possible to cover. So thank you guys.

Todd Good 26:35

Course. Anytime. Thank you

Updated: Nov 11, 2020

It's the campus recruiting strategy that's silently killing your brand ..... Know what I'm referring to?

Before our world was turned upside down weeks ago, you were probably copying that ONE template that's been shared throughout the company and spraying and praying that students respond in a timely/excitable manner

..... & based on your brand, it may have worked...? But have you thought about what the next few months will look like if you keep doing this?

Almost every company will be transitioning to a digital strategy (nice use of the buzzword, eh?) Anyway, what I'm saying is that everyone will be messaging the same candidates with the same generic templates

If this ALREADY doesn't bother you - Imagine the feeling of walking down a touristy city where you're bombarded by aggressive street vendors - do you engage with all of them? or do you keep your head down, walk away as fast as you can to get to your destination?

Point being: how do you expect to WOW top students if your messaging is impersonal and stale as that street vendor who approaches you without any context?

So now - you as the recruiter HAVE to communicate a value proposition to job candidates in the same way marketers do to customers - here is our transcribed conversation:

*Conversation transcribed and presented to you raw via"

Rishav Khanal 0:04

Welcome back to recruiting, you got a little bit of an upgrade with the fancy studio there. low grade, but you know what we're gonna make it work. So really, I mean, as you guys know, you're probably already familiar by now we want to get strategic about campus recruiting. And before we go ahead and introduce our awesome guests we love to start out with irrelevant Dumb fun facts. So Shawn, I don't know if you know this, but the king of hearts is the only card I believe was the only king in a deck of cards without a mustache. Little tidbit for you. But as our listeners are kind of pondering on that, as am I, give us a little bit of background, a little bit about yourself and what excites you about campus recruiting?

Shawn Crowley 0:50

Sure, sure. Well, much like anybody that kind of comes into recruiting I fell into it. It certainly wasn't something that you know, growing up, I was like, I want to be a recruiter, when I grew up. I actually wanted to be a weatherman. But that didn't work out too well because of all the math that was involved. So wound up settling on recruiting after doing a customer service in a call center environment, wearing a headset, much like I am today for eight hours a day being tethered to a line. I knew that wasn't for me. But I knew I was really good at talking to people, I knew I was really good about being able to make those connections and being able to sell something. So I think I thought kind of what better next step in my career to potentially look into recruiting worked for Geico, which is a company that's really known for promoting from within. So I was able to go ahead and obtain top numbers and my current job which allowed me to transfer into recruiting, and kind of hit the ground running from there, you know, you really can run your show the way you want to and recruiting, you know, it's a very self motivated profession. So I was able to, you know, make a name of myself at Geico, which opened up some new opportunities to work on some more short term contracts, which I'm currently doing, helping companies achieve their recruiting goals and kind of this early talent acquisition space.

Rishav Khanal 2:00

I love it. Yeah, I feel like not one person that we've spoken to and I think that trend is gonna continue where their career path specifically how they got into recruiting has ever been linear. Like it's just it never really happens. But we'll see maybe somebody is out there that will surprises so let's get into it right and I've got some questions for you. I know you've got lots of insights for for for us and I want to dive into it. So the scenario here today it's kind of simple. My boss just came to me, said, Rishav. I need early level talent folks. I need them to come in. They're the you know, the they drive our business forward. I want to stick around for the next 10 years. I want my business to stick around for the next 10 years but you are going to be responsible for finding them. And right now I said yes. You know, like sure, boss. I'll do it without a clue to figure out how do I find them? Coronavirus going on I can't really go to campuses, right? Especially in the summer, too. So what do I do? Shawn, I'm kind of just coming to you and I and I'm hoping you got all the answers here.

Shawn Crowley 3:09

Sure. Well, you started with the right response. If your boss asks you to do something, I think yes is always three spots you got to go with. But yeah, you know, you really, really up ahead, up ahead to a new challenge. You know, the first thing I think you should know about University recruiting is everybody's on your side everybody's rooting for you to do well. There's so many aspects of recruiting that are really cutthroat like I've dabbled with some like technical recruiting where everybody's kind of against each other looking for that senior level you know, IT talent and things like that, you know, university recruiting while that is there, and that is present. You know, once you as a recruiter fill your numbers, you're definitely more than happy to help out others and you're seeing that right now, especially with the Coronavirus and everything. So, you know, as you're first starting out, the first place you need to go is direct to the institutions, the institution Want to fill the roles, the institutions want to see folks that are graduating, getting into jobs, earning income, and eventually hopefully donating back to the school, right? So they are going to be a very valuable resource. There's two different types of career service centers that you need to be aware of as you're kind of looking through and trying to fill your roles. Some are going to be centralized Career Service Centers within each college. What that means is there's one Career Center for the entire institution, whether it be the College of Natural Sciences, whether it be the College of Business, whether it be the College of Humanities, liberal arts, all of them are under one roof. That is by far the easier one that I found as a entry level recruiter to navigate because it's one stop and you can go ahead and get your rec filled through there. However, more and more schools are starting to decentralize their career services, or have maybe one centralized Career Service for like employer relations, but then they get specialized within each college to be able to To provide more targeted career advice, which is great for a student, because that means their career counselor, for example, for computer science, all they do all day is help computer science people get jobs, that really helps to make sure you get a targeted resume. But for you, as a recruiter, it adds a whole nother level as you're trying to reach out to them and get your job posted. Because you have to realize, alright, I might have one computer science, but data science might wind up being in the College of mathematics. So I might have someone in the computer science, you know, pathway that is not going to be able to communicate my data science opening, if that makes sense. So you really got to try to navigate that and figure that out. And all that does is it just takes research. You know, there's kind of two sides to posting jobs, right. You can do the spray and pray which is you get it out on every single job board you can and you just kind of keep your fingers crossed. And that can work for one year first recruiting your first roles. But if you're really trying to go ahead and make a name for yourself and get some top talent, you got to be more targeted. I think Say you spend about 80% of your time looking for where to post your job. And only about 20% of your time actually posting those jobs and actually reaching out to candidates really is going to make a more targeted approach, if that makes sense.

Rishav Khanal 6:14

No, I like that breakdown, that 8020. So where do I go? Like, obviously right now, you know, colleges aren't opening their doors at the moment. So I've got all these job boards. I've heard of handshake, do I start there? And I just kind of hope that students come to me.

Shawn Crowley 6:36

Absolutely. So you know, start start with looking at what your institution has done in the past or what similar institutions have done. You're really trying to identify what best practices so you know, you asked like, where to go in Should I go to handshake. The first thing you need to identify is which schools Am I going to recruit at? Because while handshake is a great tool and handshake now has the ability for any student to join their network. It is still primarily a captive audience where each individualized institution chooses whether or not they participate in that platform, right. So the bulk of them are starting to be on that kind of platform or a similar platform through like another company and things like that. So you definitely want to start by registering yourself with those job boards. That would certainly be the first logical place to go if you need to hire a lot of entry level early talent quickly, right. But then from there, you really need to go ahead and look at kind of which schools make sense for you which ones you know your alumni have come in from and things like that, um, you want to make sure that you're fishing in the right pond because otherwise you're just gonna have your rod out for eight hours and you're not going to get anything and that's not going to be any fun.

Rishav Khanal 7:49

I mean, that's a good point. I think something that you're making me realize is got to have the foundation pieces first before I even start Okay, just saying Oh, we got recs out there cuz that's Seems like it's only a small portion of the battle, or I got to do a lot of work in the beginning. Um, so I hear I don't know if it's horror stories from recruiters. And I've heard you know, the phrase spray and pray sometimes even applied to the handshake where students just don't respond. I mean, I'm looking for. It's not like I'm looking for a very specific role. I'm looking for those IIT students, business students finance it, and it's like any anybody that is willing to put in the work, but he has never get back to me because they've never heard of us. So how do I fight that uphill battle?

Shawn Crowley 8:36

Sure, sure. So I guess we can start doing a deeper dive into handshake and the different ways you can utilize the platform at this point is probably the best way to answer the question. So handshake, the bulk of employers are going to use it to post jobs. Again, we're referring kind of to that spray and pray mentality of just throwing it out there and hoping people respond and hopefully by the time you review their application, they're still interested in you. That works and it will fill roles, but you're gonna spend a lot more effort than you maybe need to kind of accomplish that goal. And you're leaving a lot to chance through that. So the other side of the platform that, you know, will really help you to realize the results that you need and to really kind of make it so that people are more likely to respond is actually reaching out directly to the candidates. So much like every recruiter kind of knows LinkedIn and knows that it's available. And it's an opportunity to go ahead and connect with folks and things like that, much like LinkedIn can be used in that way handshake can be used in a similar way, even perhaps more targeted. So each student can go ahead and create an account within handshake that their university has set up and actually customize it. They can add in their resume. They can add in all of their clubs and organizations they were involved in, they can add in their relevant skills. They can add all of that together and make that public and searchable for recruiters. Now, those students that do that are typically Got to be the best talent because they're the ones that are the most proactive. They're the ones that are most knowledgeable. They've been working really closely with their career service teams, or potentially have listened to a recruiter that's come to school and explained how this platform worked. So they're going to be the most knowledgeable and they're going to be the most highly motivated folks in terms of looking for jobs to they're going to be warm talent. So I always recommend using that search candidates tool. If you haven't taken a moment, try to watch like a five minute long video and what's called Boolean search. It's super lame. It's something that like librarians do and things like that. However, it's so relevant to recruiting and if you haven't had a chance to review that, just those simple modifiers of and or not, if you know how to use those and you know how to use quotation marks, you're going to see a you're going to see a much better selection pool than you otherwise would. Which is really great. Now that's great. You can reach out to these candidates. But the other thing We really need to discuss is how do we craft that message so that they do respond, right. And we really need to think about that like how a marketer crafts something, you are really trying to sell a product at this point. And the key for me is really customizing and tailoring the message. Again, going back to that spray and pray analogy, you can go ahead and have one template that you send out to everybody explaining why your company is awesome why this role is amazing why it pays so much more than the other roles. And you can send it out to them, but nothing specialized. A lot of recruiters are going to be looking at this digital platform right now to try to fill these roles. So they could be getting bombarded with emails right now. So you really need to look at how you can make it unique. It can be as simple and as basic as just customizing the subject line. Ideally, you're going to want to go ahead and have a template but then be able to modify it and explain. Explain that you actually read their profile basically is what you're looking at. It can be as simple as you saying, Hey, we went to the same school Or hey, you know, one of our alumni, you know was successful in the program or even customizing it and adding in Hey, blank major would be a great fit. Like even that adds a little bit more credibility to your response than just, hi, I get this internship, please let me let me have you to apply for it.

Rishav Khanal 12:20

That's, I love that because especially the fact that I need to start thinking like a marketer. You're right, you're ultimately that's what you're doing. Like you're you are that that person that personifies that employer brand for your company, especially to college students. And you want to put the best sort of face out there, or the best representation of you. So just to kind of wrap everything up that we kind of talked about, let me know if I missed any gaps because it seems like I've got lots of work to do is first identifying what schools do I really need to recruit from and that comes from internally like kind of getting all my stakeholders together. Looking at where I have all my alumni connections, doing a lot of that work up front, and then figuring out, okay, what job board Do I need to be at? And that seems like that's kind of that 80% of my time as opposed to 20%. Okay, just send it out there. And then once I'm there, you're right, there's a really good point because a lot of companies are probably going to go a lot more digital. So that means students are going to be bombarded with messages. So I need to start thinking of whatever I send to students, as if I were a marketer and personalize those outreaches. So that way, they feel inclined to kind of give me a respond and start the conversation from there. Anything that I missed from the three prongs that we talked about today?

Shawn Crowley 13:45

No, no, I think you've got a really solid overview to be able to, you know, take your goal and crush it. The last thing I'll leave you with is definitely make sure to remember that there are so many students that are in a similar situation. To you, where they are also scrambling at the last minute right now to find something else. It's a very uneasy time, a lot of people that add offers no longer have offers. So the last tip of the tray that I'll give you is you can always filter by that too, you can look at people that have updated their resume within the last 24 hours, 48 hours, just like you just had this role thrust upon you with the last minute with 24 48 hours notice, there are many of students that are in the similar situation. And your best way to find a partnership is going to be to go ahead and filter that out and find those that are in a similar situation to you.

Rishav Khanal 14:35

makes a ton of sense. You know what you're doing, I'm sure. Throughout it all, as I have more questions, our listeners might have some questions as well. We'll be sure to probably circle back to this conversation and take a take a deeper dive to see what the state of campus recruiting probably looks like in the next three to six months with everything going on. But seriously, Sean, thanks so much for coming on. Like I said, We'd like to kind of keep things Quick, straight to the point go to the workshop, because it seems like you know, like we nailed down. I've got lots of work to do. So thank you again, for coming on board. It was a pleasure.

Shawn Crowley 15:08

Of course likewise Have a great day. All right.