Yo - have you heard about this story of Mark Cuban during his early days of starting his Consulting Company?
He didn't want to be exposed as someone who's not knowledgable so read almost everything he could to sound credible Found a quote where he talked about this experience ”I expected them to say: “Oh yeah, I read that too in such-and-such.”
That’s not what happened. They hadn’t read it then, and they still haven’t started reading it. Most people won’t put in the time.” (Talk about fake it til you make it...)
Now, I'm talking to most campus recruiters who are hiring for complex roles Most of them have never done the job so the conversation can feel off-balance
Now, not only have they not done that job, but they haven't even taken the time to read articles, blogs or even have a surface level understanding of the role they're hiring for
Just because they're students doesn't mean you have the upper hand
If you're expected to bring top-tier candidates into your pipeline, do you have a top-tier process that will help you get there?
In April Peth, Esq.'s world, you have to become a trusted advisor Because her roles are complicated and require multiple experiences, but listen to her advice as she breaks down how you can become an advisor too
Rishav Khanal 0:02
Boom. And I think she's chimed in, I've got the record sign on there. So everybody, welcome back to recruiting you. And we're super excited to have our guest on, but I know, I know, you're probably wondering, alright, Rishav what is the fun fact? What's the trivia question lay it on me. And we've gone on a streak now where people have known the answer. And I, you know, my goal for this is for our audience and our guest to not know the answer. So I can feel a little bit smarter about myself. But anyways, Alexis April.
What is the name of the company that Elan musk currently runs? That is currently digging tunnels into the ground?
April Peth 0:53
The only company I think might be his other than Tesla's, this is SpaceX or whatever his space one is? I don't know any.
Rishav Khanal 1:02
Yeah, you've got two of them. And he's got Solar City that's like the cheapest, like solar that you can put on your tiles. But he's also got the boring company. So the idea is you dig tunnels into the ground. And then that way, you can avoid traffic because your car would go and you'd go into the tunnel, and he would just drop?
Yes, it's the boring company. Lot. Lots of smart people working on that. But for us here, a lot of smart people coming on just like a bro and we're excited to have her curious, you know, thinking about you all the colleagues that you probably talked to any fun facts, I guess you or your colleagues necessarily wouldn't know about you? The first time they meet you.
Elon is using a boring machine from a sewer project in Sunnydale, California
April Peth 1:50
My colleagues wouldn't know about me. Exactly. Um, I'm the oldest of five kids. So that's
Rishav Khanal 2:01
what's the what's the fondest memory growing up in that household was Thanksgiving or any other big holiday? Like?
April Peth 2:07
I'm crazy, but very fun. We used to have our own family newspaper, family weekly time. So it was?
Rishav Khanal 2:21
Well, I know I think for people that are super used to coming to the show for a little bit. I've watched the episodes. They're like, hey, Rishav, did you just steal Alexis Thunder? Because she always chimes in with a question. We are unfortunately, so sad to see her leave. I think this is going to be the second to last podcast that she does with us before she goes back to her awesome time at Virginia Tech is a rising senior. So we're just passing off the baton expertise and everything like that. But, April, let's dive into it. We're short, sweet, straight to the point. And listeners know, hey, we go get into this fictitious scenario and play out this hypothetical. And I'm a campus recruiter right now who is really struggling, close candidates, right? I'm talking to a lot of students who are juggling multiple offers. And I just feel like there's something off, and I can't sell them on why they should come work for us. Now I know, you're not a campus recruiter by you know, by day 24. Seven, you work in a different division. You're talking to legal folks like people that are super smart people that are probably juggling a lot of other offers, who know their worth. And somehow you have to work with them to solve them on wherever you're going to be placing them however you work. So I'm curious, like, have you come across a situation? And if so what would your advice be to me to make sure that it doesn't happen moving forward?
April Peth 3:37
Definitely. Well, thank you for having me. So I would think the first thing I would say is you have to almost think of your position, even though you're recruiting or on campus, recruiting is a sales position, you are pretty much having to sell candidates. I mean, even in this market, the unemployment rate for people who are qualified and presentable and articulate is still very low. So I think you really need to go into it thinking of your position as a sales position. I know when we have a job, the first thing we identify is kind of what we would call the selling points or perks. So know what's you know, separates or differentiates the position you're working on versus others that the candidates are applying for. So you probably I mean, you guys are recruiting for a variety of positions. So the selling points will be different, but one thing you need to do is be I would say knowledgeable about the market if you're recruiting for positions, for instance, for communications majors right out of college, I would want to know if I were you what other jobs are these people applying for? What's the target salary range? If you're looking for other targets, salary range information, a lot of recruiting agencies such as mine, to put out a brochure That's, you know, by region throughout the country. So I think something like that is great. Or when you're talking to candidates may be asking, Hey, you know, I know you're interviewing for other positions, what's the salary range, you're those roles are offering on just to be really knowledgeable so you can know what differentiates your company and position in their jobs. Other selling points, I think especially now are opportunity to work remote, you know, after this is all over, if you have great health benefits on, some firms have or companies have every other Friday off, I've noticed or half days on Fridays, things like that. Think of what you would entice you for a role. Um, so I think going into it knowing the selling points. I think also, when you're starting to talk to someone, I would definitely know it sounds like you're aware shop when they have multiple offers or other interviews, which is good. But I would make sure you're staying on top of that, and just kind of conversing with them, you know, Oh, I know. you're interviewing for another position on how's that going? How far along? Are you in the interview process? What excites you about that job? Do you mind if I ask, you know, where your interest is leaning? So you can, you don't want to be shocked at the end? If they don't accept your position. You want to know, early on, hey, they're leaning to this role. Because of this, I need to try to get them a couple thousand more if I can, I need to figure out what what a driving force is. So knowing that I'm being able to talk about their other options. And then I think when you do have an offer for a candidate, you do have to really sell it to them. So I'm not sure to be honest. How from a campus recruiting or an in house company perspective, if you guys are the ones presenting the offer to candidate
Rishav Khanal 6:51
April Peth 6:53
typically. Okay, perfect. Yeah. So I think, you know, one of the issues we see, and you guys probably see this a lot too, then is candidates, oh, I'm really interested, I have another interview at the end of the week, I want to see how that goes. And then we'll get back to you know, I think that's, you know, you never want to leave that option open. If you have any chance, I think that is great for a candidate perspective, because if they have multiple offers, they're going to go to the other interview, I need to get out, you know, a decision from you today, I actually have this other offer for 60,000. And I mean, there for sure going to beat you out. So I think you need to whenever you're presenting an offer, you need to have a quick deadline. Um, I think you want to flatter the person or the candidate somewhat, you know, because you want them to feel like they're a good fit for your company. But you also don't want to make them feel as if they're not amazing. And the only one so when you're giving them a deadline, I would almost say something like, you know, we did have several other great candidates interview this position. One, maybe one hiring manager, you would say, in particular was really fond of another candidate, we want to get an offer out to them quickly, if this isn't the right fit for you. I understand. So you want to sell it to them, you know, there, they are not probably the only candidate out there, especially if you're working with recent college graduates. So I would just I always like them to think that there's competition for them too. And you know, they need to they need to work for it. It is competitive on both ends on
Rishav Khanal 8:32
what's yours. I mean, especially in your field, right? it's legal. Like, yeah, and I mean,
April Peth 8:37
to be honest, we usually do only have one or two good candidates for our positions, because we're looking usually for people in the three to five year experience range for most of our roles. So those people don't want to move or they want to move to go into company like your own. So it is hard persuading them. And we usually don't have that many candidates. But if we allow them to think they're, you know, one in a million, they're gonna want everything. And so I think just, yeah, you're, I'm sure the companies you're working for great places to work to. So I would just make sure that going into it. You're excited about the job, you're excited about the perks, you know, the salary you can offer, and you think it's a sweet deal. If you don't think it is, you know, the candidates probably aren't going to. So I think with us, we have to communicate with our clients when no one's going to be interested in that position, quite frankly. So you guys, when you're talking to a hiring manager, about a position within your company, I would think you would just need to be clear with them. sure if this is what you're looking for, this is the salary range you want us to offer. That's great, but based on me talking to undergraduates last year, they're getting offered this so just really making sure everyone's knowledgeable you the hiring manager because you're probably the one actually talking to the candidates first. So you have kind of more information there. And I think they appreciate that. Well, seriously. I mean, I think
Rishav Khanal 10:13
in this hypothetical scenario, I'm at fault of that where I am more of a generalist, not a specialist. Yeah, I think, you know, everyone talks about, hey, recruiters need to be trusted advisors, right? You're like, whether it's your company or somewhere else, they need to almost know that you're going to make the best decision alongside with them, based on their knowledge, their expertise of their market. I'm curious, Alexis, because I know that wasn't the case for me talking to cam scooters. But like, as you're going through the thick of internships, knowing that you're a marketing major, did you have instances of recruiters that knew like, Hey, I know you're applying to other jobs. I know what marketing people are making? Like, do they have that level of trust and credibility with you? It wasn't more of a generalist thing. I'm just curious, like, if that's still the case, from 2018 to 2020.
April Peth 11:03
Yeah, that's a good question. Especially because now everything's changing, right? Everything. Um, so I'm trying to think last year, or I guess, yeah, last this past spring. I feel like the recruiters they were very, they were very open. Like they want the candidates to be able to talk with them about everything that they're going through just like April saying, like being able to be open and just talking. So yes, they were very Oh, they're like, hey, like, how is everything going for you? Like are you find other places? So I did actually experience like, they wanted before we dive, like dove into any interviews, they were having that conversation like, hey, how is your applying process going for? internship? So yeah, definitely.
Rishav Khanal 11:44
I got you know, cuz that's, I mean, like, at least for me, I feel like I don't hear that often. Right in in April. And let me know like, because I, I sort of want to wrap a bow on this. Like I said, short, sweet, straight to the point. And let me know if I missed anything from the notes that we're taking here. It seems like hey, first, before anything, it's just identifying those selling points and that perks for the role. Right? And if I am that in house, campus recruiter a, am I even excited about the company in the benefits that I get? Because if I'm not, I'm it's almost disingenuous at that point, trying to sell somebody something hard. Oh, yeah. I mean, talk about cognitive dissonance, like internally, I don't feel it. So how is my behavior going to showcase that. And then the second thing is, I don't think a lot of campus recruiters, at least the conversations I've had, they don't think like salespeople and recruiting yourselves are one to one, where you have to be knowledgeable about the market, you have to have a good policy, you have to kind of understand your competitive landscape to feel like, okay, I can take somebody from here to here and walk them through that journey. And the third thing, what I gathered from you is always positioning and kind of this fine balancing act of make the candidate feel good, but also get firm decisions from them, because you don't want them to hang you in limbo of Oh, maybe? What about this? What about that, then it just increases that time to fail. Um, so those were kind of the three big things that I took away as far as Hey, what is, quote unquote, closing a candidate look like? How do you sell them on these points and offers anything else that you think I might have missed? Or anything you'd add on to that? Before I go out and execute on these scenarios, which I deeply need to do?
April Peth 13:22
No, I would say, that's great. And yeah, just staying in communication with the person I think I've no, I believe in house or recruiting for those type of roles sometimes may take longer, because you have quite a few processes. So I would be in contact with the person, you know, if more than a few days goes by, hey, we're so excited about your application. I'm trying to connect you with this person, I think that might set you guys apart, rather than kind of in that also, but probably build a better rapport. So you are able to ask them those questions more about their other interview process, because they might think you care. You're keeping them in the loop, you obviously know what's going on. It's not just another random candidate that, you know, you'll forget about it
Rishav Khanal 14:08
Real quick. How do you keep this organizational information organized? I mean, you view and even in house, you're talking to lots of people? How do you make sure that people just aren't a number at the end of the day? And I actually can pull up whatever to use any systems or tools that
April Peth 14:24
Yeah, so I'm not sure so we have a database obviously. So we log in can look up candidates by their information. We have another thing I think this might be like a Microsoft or something type program so people could have access to it. Um, we have one Note, but I'm sure there are a lot of other options like almost binder folder system. So I might have candidates in the interview stage candidates, you know, second round candidates to consider if this role comes up again. So just kind of I don't know, I actually did have a actual paper file. system for a while with folders, but now I'm working from home. So I'd say any similar file, notebook type system, you could just drag you know, resume PDFs or Word documents and stick into and then write a few notes. I think that's a good idea.
Rishav Khanal 15:16
Yeah, I can barely read my chicken scratch. So to sort of just like whether it be Google Drive, OneNote just having it on there. I know, I can read it. It's legible. Right? It's gonna come out the same, but I think we've got lots of work to do. We've identified those signing points, understand how to be knowledgeable about the market and build a good rapport with the candidate. So you can ask them the tough questions of Hey, what other opportunities are you looking at? What excites you about that opportunity? Why now why them really getting them to understand their candidate journey so that way, you can sort of be an advocate for them, not just with the candidate, but also the hiring manager. And then I don't think I'm missing anything else as far as staying organized. Keep up that filing system if your paper if you don't have chicken scratch like me, kudos to you. But keep it all organized. And thank you again for coming on board. Like I said, the listeners are gonna be listening on. We've got lots of work to do.
April Peth 16:06
Appreciate it, guys. Best of luck with everything and keep in touch and reach out if you have any questions that I can help with or both. Yeah,
Rishav Khanal 16:15